Reikijim wrote:

Ok....try attuning someone, use no symbols. Whats left of the attunment procedure?
Really, tell me how you would do it, and where you would start...let me know the out come...It would be fascinating.

Usui sensei choose, and empowered the symbols. To, to some degree, emulate his own ability & expereince, imo. This is why there's such a difference in the initiations.

Reikijim wrote:
Someone mentioned that the ritual might be the importance...the programming...the connection, setting the recipients intention, matching it with your own. Yet you have already been attuned to Reiki, so it`s possible you may be doing a form of Reiju just through this fact. I remember reading things about Usui, and yes it`s difficult to know what he did, as opposed to what many people claim he did,,,,But for what it`s worth, I remember reading about him passing Reiju, when in his students presence, without ritual. Ever notice what a calming effect some Reiki masters have on people without doing anything at all?

This is cause 'Reiki' is all around us, in a constant, at all times. It's our divine spark in action. It's why we need no other protection. And it's why your above quote applies, as we both already know, hehe.

Take care
Wayne

Thaak wrote:

Reikijim wrote:
I see all as one infinite energy, that my mind really cannot comprehend, so i struggle with word and ideas to come as close as i can, to an understanding. In Reiki, the best explanation I have, is that I may be focusing on a specific energy, in the infinite, to accomplish something. I identify this band through a symbol. I`m not sure that this act becomes a duality, but half my brain is saying it has to...What`s one to do with that...? Can we be one, and separate ? I think we can, as I cannot see another possibility. What do you think? If we are of energy and surrounded by energy only, why could we not?...and is duality in this theory, a limitation? I would not see it as such ...it just is...Ok someone please get a net to capture me before i float away...lol

My thought on this is simple. The symbols are tools to help us focus on a particular concept, energy frequency, ideal, et. al. By focusing on HSZSN, for example, it can help you step outside of time and space. Something that would be incredibly difficult for someone who hasn't mastered doing so already. Even Jesus used a "Word" to facilitate his healing miracles. He, of course, didn't need it, but he gave the word to his disciples, because they would not have been able to comprehend how he accomplished what he did without the "Word" to assist their focus.

But focusing on the symbol, we remove our ego, and our individual attachment to the outcome. So I'm doing a distance session, and I don't focus on HSZSN, I can become attached to the process of sending energy across a distance. By focusing on the symbol, I remove my caring from the process, and just let the energy be what it is, part of the whole.

But by meditating or focusing on the symbols as something that grants us power, or allows us to do things we wouldn't normally be able to do, then we start to have duality consciousness. Because something outside of ourself is allowing us to do something.

Its a very subtle semantic, but I think an important and profound one.

Hi Andy,

When I read this the other night, I was a little spun out, got exposed to carbon monoxide on a job I was running...no wonder I could not comprehend.

Anyways...the ideas you have offered i can connect with. When I think Reiki, my hands a feet start to tingle, my forehead feels, well I cannot explain how my forehead feels, and my state of consciousness changes...It`s automatic, even though I have not thought about a symbol, or an intent to use one. This happens because I have been attuned to the symbols.

As you offered,in your reponse, to send over distance/time, the intent to send energy may connect one to HSZSN without having to have the thought, an automated response. This is how I have interpreted your idea...What do you think?

It does get a little more perplexing in regard to the other symbols however, as i view things, at least. You intend to do a specific task and need a specific energy to do so, for example SHK. One could identify the problem, through scanning or intuition. At this point one would need to decide what to apply, or is it a connection on a subliminal level at work?

I have an idea as to what may be happening...What is your take on this?
I`ve always been happy with thinking of the symbol at this point, but apparently that is not your way....Could you shed a little more light please?

RJ

Just a thought related to some things which have been said here:

I understand that the CKR is actually quite commonly used in Japan, it's sort of a good luck symbol. A bit like a shamrock (four-leaved clover). Does this usage give it a different meaning, one that doesn't need attunement to access?

Pandora wrote:Just a thought related to some things which have been said here:

I understand that the CKR is actually quite commonly used in Japan, it's sort of a good luck symbol. A bit like a shamrock (four-leaved clover). Does this usage give it a different meaning, one that doesn't need attunement to access?

Hi Chris

I haven't heard that before.
When I went to Japan last year, I didn't see CKR anywhere as such - some spirals on the tigers of Mount Kurama Temple, in the eaves of some Budhist Temples and in the clouds of some Japanese artwork

I did see plenty of examples of the shuji (seed syllable) Kiriku, from which the SHK is said to have been derived, in Buddhist Temples (particularly Senju Kannon and Amida) and also as a good luck charm for attaching to your mobile phone!

I also know that HSZSN was used as part of a Ninja Good luck charm.

It is nice to think that what we use as Reiki symbols are also seen as symbols of Good Luck!

It is the origins of these good luck charms which may give us some idea of why Usui sensei chose to use them in his system.

I also saw DKM in the Prayer to Sonten in the Leaflet for Mount Kurama and the Prayerbook of the Kurama Kokyo sect.

But as an answer to your question, I think that some symbols are common to several cultures although they don't always have the same meaning. E.g. the swastika now has very different connotations in the West but is still very visible in Japan where it is found on many Buddhist statues and on the cloths in the front of some shinto shrines.

In the case of DKM, as James has already mentioned elsewhere, Dai Ko Myo has been used by a torch/flashlight company and I don't think you need to be attuned to use one of those

Ai to Hikari
Colin

It's not neccessarily a shape of something that denotes it's power, . Although, i dunno, sacred geometary may come into things sometimes. In Japan, we have things such as Kuji-Kiri, where set 'shapes' have very special outcomes.

CKR does what it does (in Reiki) cause Usui sensei had the ability, and knowledge, of how to pass on some of his expereince. He done this with the symbols.

The most important question i find with this, is why did Usui sensei pick that symbol in particular? There must surely be a reason why he choose that symbol.


CKR wasn't 'invented' by Usui sensei. So of course there are other uses of it.

Take care
Wayne

I find the subject of semiotics - the study of signs and symbols - fascinating. For example, why do Christians wear crosses? Is it because they wish to self-identify with an organisation? Or with the sufferings of Christ on the cross? Or are they wishing to access the power contained within that ancient symbol?

And why do people have tattoos? Is it because they wish to permanently identify themselves with a shape, a being, an object? Do they wish to access the qualities of that thing - I'm thinking of a dolphin tattoo I saw the other day here - or are they wishing to identify with an idealised "dolphin" being? Or are they wishing to keep alive the memory of swimming with dolphins? You can't say that the reasons are as individual as the bearers of tattoos, as semioticians will categorise and analyse these reasons.

What does this say about the symbols, and our use of them, whether they be Usui's symbols, or channelled symbols, or ones lifted from other places such as Antahkarana or Raku?

I believe our motives for using the symbols affect their effects. I also believe there is no one right answer. You may have noticed I enjoy asking questions and not giving answers - I think we get closer to the truth that way!

Pandora wrote:I find the subject of semiotics - the study of signs and symbols - fascinating. For example, why do Christians wear crosses? Is it because they wish to self-identify with an organisation? Or with the sufferings of Christ on the cross? Or are they wishing to access the power contained within that ancient symbol?

I can't speak about why they use the cross now. I do know, there's many major researchers whom have quite convincingly shown the correlation between Christinaity & sun worship. This toes the line with Paganism being amalgamated with christinaity around 300 AD. Incidentally, around the time the cross was also adopted.

Anyhow. astrology. In this correlation these experts show, the cross is an ancient symbols before christianity, and is actually the 'sun cross' from bronze age, or, i'm trying to remember, a star formation of a cross. can't remember the name.

Pandora wrote:
What does this say about the symbols, and our use of them, whether they be Usui's symbols, or channelled symbols, or ones lifted from other places such as Antahkarana or Raku?

It says that folks see importance in symbols. It doesn't suggest a cross can heal, or effect healing 5000 mile away. Look, , if a person is spiritually empoweredd to use a symbol, that's one thing. If a person, an un-iniated person, was to try to use the 4 symbols, it'd be real interesting to see what happened.



Take care
Wayne

Oh dear, Wayne, you've just kicked off an ear worm...


Four Symbols...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin_IV

Good God! you've shown the answer to everything!

But the swastika (and other unsavory symbols) have a particular cultural meaning attached to them, that brings a negative connotation to the table. [Note: Interestingly enough, the swastika used to be a positive symbol in germanic and celtic symbology, but was perverted by the Nazis.] So you can't use a swastika to attune someone to Reiki.

Now, what if someone had absolutely NO knowledge of the swastika... never seen it before, never heard of it. Now what if we told them the name of this symbol was Choku Rei, and taught all the history/meanings/uses that go along with it?

I'm thinking to a degree, it would work just the same. But after thinking about the purpose of being Attuned to the symbols, I'm wondering if in being ATTUNED to them, we experience them on an entirely unique and profound level, in ways that can't be described with words. This IS similar to Buddhist Koans... you can find these on the internet as well. Most will seem like nonsensical anecdotes. After some research you might be able to understand some on an logical/intellectual level... even a hypothetical level. But there's a deeper meaning behind them that you can't possibly understand until you've EXPERIENCED the Koan. You're taught to meditate on the Koan daily, to live it, to recall it every moment....

"A monk asked Joshu, a Zen Master, 'Has a dog Buddha-nature or not?'
Joshu answered, 'Mu!'"

I said "wtf" to this when I read it at the age of 13... in fact, I think I wondered why he would "moo" in response. I THOUGHT I understood it at the age of 15 after researching it and while it was interesting, I didn't find it all that profound. I knew and understood it on every level of my being when I spontaneously experienced it at the age of 20. In a few years, I'll focus on this particular Koan again and see what else has to teach me.

The symbols are the Gokai are the developmental practices of Reiki are self-treatment and...

It's one thing to read about these things, and another to experience them and put them into practice in everyday life.

If we say "you cannot use the symbols unless you're Attuned to them" then there must be a reason. Is this it? Is there something else to it?

o0wabi-sabi0o wrote:If we say "you cannot use the symbols unless you're Attuned to them" ...

What if instead, we say:

"the symbols cannot use you unless you are attuned to them" ?


.
.
.

o0wabi-sabi0o wrote:
Now, what if someone had absolutely NO knowledge of the swastika... never seen it before, never heard of it. Now what if we told them the name of this symbol was Choku Rei, and taught all the history/meanings/uses that go along with it?

I'm thinking to a degree, it would work just the same.

i liked your thought-provoking way of writing your post wabi, .

i'd wrote to Chris (pandora) earlier. suggesting an experiment some of us done. I then edited it, as i hadn't the tme to take part myself.

I find it hard ot beleive, if a non-Reiki initiated person drew HSZSN, that they could absent heal, specifically following the simple intent once thing we do in Reiki. Or, they could initiate another with DKM.

If some folks who are willing could gather some non-Reiki initiated folks, and let them try to use the symbols, and report what happened, that'd be cool. They'd need ot be totally non-Reiki initiated, and not a practitioner of an energy attunemnt system where the founder has Reiki roots. Also, they can't use any other techniques from other modalities, such as Qigong, Quantum Touch, etc. It has to be Reiki technqiues.

This, if doen properly, would be a very interesting experiment.

o0wabi-sabi0o wrote:
But after thinking about the purpose of being Attuned to the symbols, I'm wondering if in being ATTUNED to them, we experience them on an entirely unique and profound level, in ways that can't be described with words. This IS similar to Buddhist Koans... you can find these on the internet as well. Most will seem like nonsensical anecdotes. After some research you might be able to understand some on an logical/intellectual level... even a hypothetical level. But there's a deeper meaning behind them that you can't possibly understand until you've EXPERIENCED the Koan. You're taught to meditate on the Koan daily, to live it, to recall it every moment....

Of course, we both know what i'm gonna say here....

The reason why we initiate others with the 4 symbols, is because we ourselves have recieved a spiritual empowerment from another. One above us in lineage, reaching back to Usui sensei. An unbroken line of spiritual empowerment. to understand why these 4 symbols are being used by us, we must look to what the symbols are, and, why they symbols where picked by Usui sensei.

Is everyone simply initiating others, and not even wondering why they're doing what they do in initiaiton?

o0wabi-sabi0o wrote:
It's one thing to read about these things, and another to experience them and put them into practice in everyday life.

totally true! I wanna say also though, practical spirituality is essential. Although, there's still a place for academic study alongside, . Usui sensei done it, it was diretly related to us recieving Reiki. and, when, say, Buddhists recieve spiritual empowerments, they don't simply stop academic studies.

Our Reiki expereince, constant as it is, doesn't mean we've reached the goal, end, whatever. It's helping us along just.

Take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:

The most important question i find with this, is why did Usui sensei pick that symbol in particular? There must surely be a reason why he choose that symbol.


CKR wasn't 'invented' by Usui sensei. So of course there are other uses of it.

Take care
Wayne

Hi Wayne,

We have the symbol, and also, we have the idea associated to it....

So, did the shape of that symbol exist before if was labeled CKR by Usui-sensei?


I`ve found a few references to spirals in the world...chiseled into rock around 300 B.C., and before. Right hand spirals seem to be in alot of places in the ancient world, with more than one idea associated to the shape.
I`ve seen references in Buddhism and other cultures, yet the symbol we identify with I cannot find a reference to Prior to Usui calling it CKR.
One Tibetan reference i found related an association to an energy field...

"Dorje with spiral energy whirls. These spirals portray fields of power generated by the dorje, the infinite nature of Buddhist wisdom. Early Buddhist century."

and...

"The dorje is the symbol of enlightenment. The shape of the dorje symbolizes the two forms of truth, relative and absolute. The connection of the two truths in the middle is known as the sphere of actual reality"

Both references have a Tibetan origin.....Thogchags, Ancient Amulets of Tibet...


i have the links if anyone is interested...

lots of references to the spiral. Nothing pre-reiki to the shape we identify as CKR.

Do you know if this symbol existed before Usui?


RJ

Reikijim wrote:
One Tibetan reference i found related an association to an energy field...

"Dorje with spiral energy whirls. These spirals portray fields of power generated by the dorje, the infinite nature of Buddhist wisdom. Early Buddhist century."

and...

"The dorje is the symbol of enlightenment. The shape of the dorje symbolizes the two forms of truth, relative and absolute. The connection of the two truths in the middle is known as the sphere of actual reality"

Both references have a Tibetan origin.....Thogchags, Ancient Amulets of Tibet...


i have the links if anyone is interested...

I would be interested in the links, please, Jim!

Reikijim wrote:
lots of references to the spiral. Nothing pre-reiki to the shape we identify as CKR.

Do you know if this symbol existed before Usui?


RJ

Well here is a link to the Reiki News website which has some interesting photos one of which is of a couple of 6000 year old figures apparently giving themselves Reiki and the other shows a modern bowl with a decoration very much like the CKR but the design has apparently been in use for hundreds of years and no one nowadays can remember its significance.

http://www.reiki.org/Online/sept01/SeptNL01.htm

Like you I have come across lots of spirals in various cultures, usually symbolising energy but none have had the central line or first horizontal line. Oh, and that actually reminds me! A few years ago I met a Japanese lady who was living in the UK but was a close associate of Toshitaka Mochizuki and was a Vortex Reiki Teacher. She felt that the first horizontal line of CKR was originally just a decorative stroke which had now become part of the symbol itself. She said if CKR symbolised focusing the Reiki (or directing the spirit ) onto a particular point or area, why would it have to make a right angle turn before arriving there? Its path should be straight down from the universe and then focused using the spiral.



Ai to Hikari
Colin

Reikijim wrote:

Hi Wayne,

We have the symbol, and also, we have the idea associated to it....

So, did the shape of that symbol exist before if was labeled CKR by Usui-sensei?

IMO, we shouldn't get neccessarily to focused on the shape, when trying to understand things. The shape is Katakana, which is depicting the sound of a word. Kanji show the actual meaning of the word. This is very important i feel, .

Reikijim wrote:
Nothing pre-reiki to the shape we identify as CKR.

Do you know if this symbol existed before Usui?

If we don't focus on the shape, which is only a romanised version of Katakana, we can make some headway, .

So yeah, CKR, as in the romanised Katakana shape, did exist well before Usui sensei.

see: http://www.aetw.org/reiki_symbolsP.html .

The kanji is where we might begin to find the answers. And, obvioucly usui sensei knew the Kanji meaning deeply. So, we'll also get a glimpse into his personal ideas on Reiki, and, even his own spirituality perhaps?

See: http://www.aetw.org/reiki_symbolsP_naohi.htm


IMHO, these things we're writing about here, are perhaps the single most important ones we can, in Reiki, . It's been spoke about on here before, so i can mention all this a bit.

Take care
Wayne