Lambs-Wool wrote:
something off-topic but i dare ask from seniors here.. Takata Sensei says that when we absent heal we dont get the benefits like we heal people in-person... (words are mine)... if i m not misconceive if that is what she said, then what is the logic behind.... saying this, means that the mechanism involved in in-person treatments and absent healing, is different.. but is that actually different ?

please share what you feel...


take care

salman

Now that is a very interesting question, Salman!


You are indeed correct that Takata does say (in a tape I have of her teaching a Reiki 2 class in response to a direct question about whether we also receive a Reiki treatment when we are doing an absent treatment for someone else) that we do not receive a Reiki treatment - only the person we are sending to does.

This would tend to imply that the mechanism involved is different between hands-on and absent healing.

However, as you said in your reply to VJ:

Lambs-Wool wrote:
so when i treat others, the process is starting within me first of all, so by all means, i m 'working' on myself too...

the process starts within the Reiki practitioner first of all, so although we may not actually receive a Reiki treatment, if we have our hand on our thigh for example, when we do an absent healing, we do become aware of the divine within us and our connection with the other person.

So maybe we just experience the divine (or Reiki) in a different way when we do absent healing as opposed to giving a hands-on Reiki treatment?

Or, maybe what is sometimes interpreted as "when we give a Reiki treatment, we also receive a Reiki treatment as the Reiki passes through us" should really be interpreted as whenever we give a Reiki treatment, whether it is hands-on for another or an absent treatment, we are really enhancing our awareness of the divine within us? This is beneficial to our personal spiritual development, rather than healing specific imbalances within ourselves in the way that Reiki is healing imbalances in the person we are treating?

Thanks for posing this question, Salman - it would be interesting to hear other views also!

Colin wrote:
This would tend to imply that the mechanism involved is different between hands-on and absent healing.
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the process starts within the Reiki practitioner first of all, so although we may not actually receive a Reiki treatment, if we have our hand on our thigh for example, when we do an absent healing, we do become aware of the divine within us and our connection with the other person.

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So maybe we just experience the divine (or Reiki) in a different way when we do absent healing as opposed to giving a hands-on Reiki treatment?

When you speak something, i m such attentive and real thanks for the answer...


during in-person treatments, what is our mental condition? are we attentive to the process, or are we allowed to wander whatever in our thoughts once we have put the hands on the body, and have 'set-in' the intention...

my teacher who had initiated me to level one in-person, had the feeling that it is sometimes good 'break' very active concentration of the process, and let it take its own momentum, maybe something like 'letting ourselves dont come in its way'... thats said, no doubts, but are we or aren't we attentive/mindful in the process....

by all means, i may say that we gotta be attentive... and especially if we have done level 2, and had have initiations to HSZSN, we can't be otherwise... being mindful is the gist of HSZSN, it operates within mindfulness, and experiencing oneness is the next step always...


i have hatched this big plot just to make one point and that is mindfulness during in-person treatments... when we are mindful, and we are treating in-person, aren't we often treating him 'absently' too ?? this seems weired, but i have to say something...

being in-person and being mindful, often 'dissovles' us from our physical presence... i have often found myself in the body of the person i m treating... and have felt myself as the very organ that is receiving reiki (or healing)... that is the state when i m not doing an 'in-person' treatment, rather being one with him, i m doing an absent healing (although, he is very much present with me as well)...


on this vein, i often feel that there is only a little difference between in-person and absent healings... since, to me at least, both become same as the time passes


hey, just thought another question, hope you won't be mad at me

do we include koki ho and gyoshi ho in in-person healing or in absent healing ??

Or, maybe what is sometimes interpreted as "when we give a Reiki treatment, we also receive a Reiki treatment as the Reiki passes through us" should really be interpreted as whenever we give a Reiki treatment, whether it is hands-on for another or an absent treatment, we are really enhancing our awareness of the divine within us?

i m still not sure that when we do hatsurei ho, do we imagine energy running from crown to dantian, or just we imagine an inch-to-inch awarness of 'feeling reiki' (instead of feeling energy) along our body channels...

on these thoughts, i have little belief in the view that reiki passes through us during even in-person treatments...

when we attune palms, what we do? one way is that we open energy channels, another way is that we place ckr there which activates directly a mirror response in the body of the person lying next...

whether something goes from our hands to their bodies ? i think it does, but it isn't reiki... it may be energy, may be vibration, may be similar triggering thing... and what then happens in the other body, is called reiki...

or maybe all above is just crap i have no offence, if i have to reconstruct my reiki model ab initio

This is beneficial to our personal spiritual development, rather than healing specific imbalances within ourselves in the way that Reiki is healing imbalances in the person we are treating?

that is very wise point in response to my not so wise questions sure Colin, this could be a possiblity as well.

i just greatly miss Wayne here, hope his broadband comes alive soon...

thanks Colin

God bless!

salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:
during in-person treatments, what is our mental condition? are we attentive to the process, or are we allowed to wander whatever in our thoughts once we have put the hands on the body, and have 'set-in' the intention...

my teacher who had initiated me to level one in-person, had the feeling that it is sometimes good 'break' very active concentration of the process, and let it take its own momentum, maybe something like 'letting ourselves dont come in its way'... thats said, no doubts, but are we or aren't we attentive/mindful in the process....

by all means, i may say that we gotta be attentive... and especially if we have done level 2, and had have initiations to HSZSN, we can't be otherwise... being mindful is the gist of HSZSN, it operates within mindfulness, and experiencing oneness is the next step always...


i have hatched this big plot just to make one point and that is mindfulness during in-person treatments... when we are mindful, and we are treating in-person, aren't we often treating him 'absently' too ?? this seems weired, but i have to say something...

being in-person and being mindful, often 'dissovles' us from our physical presence... i have often found myself in the body of the person i m treating... and have felt myself as the very organ that is receiving reiki (or healing)... that is the state when i m not doing an 'in-person' treatment, rather being one with him, i m doing an absent healing (although, he is very much present with me as well)...


on this vein, i often feel that there is only a little difference between in-person and absent healings... since, to me at least, both become same as the time passes

Actually, I agree with your teacher who said that it is good to break from strong concentration once we have begun the Reiki session. That way we do not get our ego overly involved in the process and start believing that we are controlling the Reiki.

Preparing for and starting the Reiki treatment, both in-person and absent, require the mindful approach symbolised/engendered by HSZSN (whether actively/consciously used or not). Once the Reiki effect has begun, it could be said that we do not have a big part to play until we need to move our hands. I don't think we have to stay completely, single-mindedly focused all the time our hands are in one position. We just need to be aware of changes in sensation, which will naturally bring our attention back to where our hands are, so we know that we can move on to the next area where they are needed.

Similarly for absent healing: once the "connection" has been established with HSZSN, we just need to be aware of what we feel, as an indicator of where and when to move our hands. I have been taught that it is not essential to constantly try to keep the connection alive once it has been established.

Although it is maybe respectful and also quite interesting to keep a continuous sense of mindfulness and connection during an absent healing, it would also appear that it is not absolutely necessary. I have been taught that once the "connection" has been established, I could continue to give an absent treatment whilst watching the TV etc. without any detriment to the benefit from Reiki that the other person receives!

I have found this to be true both in absent and in-person treatments. I have done many Reiki treatments at events where there has been a lot of general noise from surrounding people and even rock bands and African drumming groups. Although I may have become distracted by these things, and even chatting to people about Reiki, the person receiving the Reiki has usually reported a deep and peaceful state and said they became unaware of what was going on around them.

Lambs-Wool wrote:

hey, just thought another question, hope you won't be mad at me

do we include koki ho and gyoshi ho in in-person healing or in absent healing ??

Techniques such as koki ho (breath) and gyoshi ho (gazing) are more suited to in-person treatments because they are usually used for areas where placing our hands would be inappropriate or impractical. These restrictions do not apply when giving an absent treatment, so, although in theory they could be used, they are not normally used for absent healing.

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Colin wrote:
Or, maybe what is sometimes interpreted as "when we give a Reiki treatment, we also receive a Reiki treatment as the Reiki passes through us" should really be interpreted as whenever we give a Reiki treatment, whether it is hands-on for another or an absent treatment, we are really enhancing our awareness of the divine within us?

i m still not sure that when we do hatsurei ho, do we imagine energy running from crown to dantian, or just we imagine an inch-to-inch awarness of 'feeling reiki' (instead of feeling energy) along our body channels...

on these thoughts, i have little belief in the view that reiki passes through us during even in-person treatments...

It is also my belief that Reiki does not move during hatsurei ho etc. but it is our awareness which moves. In fact it was me that first suggested that to Wayne (so long ago now! )

I was only using the phrase "Reiki passes through us" to illustrate something which is commonly said by others.

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Colin wrote:
This is beneficial to our personal spiritual development, rather than healing specific imbalances within ourselves in the way that Reiki is healing imbalances in the person we are treating?

that is very wise point in response to my not so wise questions sure Colin, this could be a possiblity as well.

i just greatly miss Wayne here, hope his broadband comes alive soon...

thanks Colin

God bless!

salman

Yes, I am sure that Wayne's viewpoint on this would be very interesting!

But please don't let that prevent others from coming forward with their views!

Colin wrote:
Actually, I agree with your teacher who said that it is good to break from strong concentration once we have begun the Reiki session. That way we do not get our ego overly involved in the process and start believing that we are controlling the Reiki.

thats exactly he felt too however, it does not necessarily mean that if we are all the time attentive in treatments, we always making ourselves believe that we were controllling the process... tendencies aside, but technically that is not the case always...

actually, i come from a different mindset in a treatment... when i have a belief that im interacting with my divinity (or his divinity, if that is tecnically true), it brings me immediately in an 'internal' gassho position being un-attentive, even if that is allowed, is no more a choice to me

I don't think we have to stay completely, single-mindedly focused all the time our hands are in one position. We just need to be aware of changes in sensation, which will naturally bring our attention back to where our hands are, so we know that we can move on to the next area where they are needed.

that is all absolutely correct... and i have 100% vote for this... when we are single minded within reiki treatment, what actually i had to say, is that we are not necessarily single minded about the process, rather we, as i personally feel, are single minded with the reiki itself, with the divine itself... and not with the particular hand position we were having...

apt right, that once there is a change of sensation under our hands, our attention is drawn to the topical area, to the treatment aspect of the session, but otherwise we were rather one with reiki... (as you said you had experiences of 'oneness' with background music, chatter, noise, etc. )


as you and me, and many others, take reiki session as a spritual session, i feel it is good to be mindful to reiki during the treatments, and this does not mean being mindful to the treatment process itself... although, as you said Colin, our patient will continue to experince healing even if we are dont mindful in the process...


but, reitrating, if we want to take (maximum) personal benefits during reiki treatments of others, wouldn't be this a good approach to be mindful to reiki ourselves too ? and what will happen, client will receive healing, and we will receive spiritual composure... one shot, several apples!

but, again, on technical side i have absolutely dont have a single word to say opposite to what exactly you said...

we can eat food while standing in a bus, tube, train, etc. and we can eat food while sitting comfortably in a comfy restaurant... food would be digested both ways, but pleasure changes !

Techniques such as koki ho (breath) and gyoshi ho (gazing) are more suited to in-person treatments because they are usually used for areas where placing our hands would be inappropriate or impractical. These restrictions do not apply when giving an absent treatment, so, although in theory they could be used, they are not normally used for absent healing.

i have tried koki ho in absent healing, and it blends so magnificiently with concentration, with the state of achieving oneness with the remote buddy... and so on...

as you said in theory they could be used, so i just tried that theory putting to action, so to see what happens


however, the bent of the question was something else Colin... i repeat it and see if you can find my confusion...


in-person treatment require a physical touch, absent healing does not require a physical touch... koki/gyoshi also dont require a physical touch... so what is their specie ? if we see that when we breath reiki out during koki ho, is that necessary that the person is within the 'reach' of our breath to be able to receive reiki... what if i give reiki through breath to a person who is sitting some yards away? i feel that would work equally, even if that person is far away from being 'within the reach' of my breath... so if the act of physical touch (by hands or breath) is not involved, would it be called distant healing ??

this gains importance, since we are discussing the technical position of in-person and absent healing treatments in this very thread


and pleas please please dont ever feel i m doubting your knowledge or something... i m just trying to clarify things for me and for others too.. discussion is always good !


take care sir



salman

Colin wrote:
s, I am sure that Wayne's viewpoint on this would be very interesting!

But please don't let that prevent others from coming forward with their views!

well, i've been thinking bout opening a private section, just for me & test account to have a good chat on! hehe.

anyhow, i havn't read all you & Salmans excellant chat properly, i'm in lbrary so pushed for time.

If i can just give my own understanding, ..

Reiki, isn't an energy that travels. quantum physics shows that nothing ever moves. if i move myself across a room, i not moving. i'm vanishing in 7 out of existence ver fast, and appearing a little distance away. our mind interprest it as linear travel, as it does all things. And since it is't an energy that travels, it's gotta be something else. It's an experience. A occurence, or as James says a 'phenomenon'.

so Reiki is a happening. If i treat someone in-person, as Reiki is actually an aura treatment (we're working on invisible to eye reality that directly affects physical) i do something (treatment/placing hands) that creates a response in another. This response is a spiritual one, that brings oneness, a product of which is healing. it's the person reacting to my ability to interact with my divinity, that is called Reiki. in other words, their reaction is Reiki.

as it's an aura occurence, if we're also within their auric field, we'll recieve their Reiki response. and be healed also. secondary to the recipient, sicne it's the recipient dictating the Reiki response. this is why we recieve only some healing.

in absent healing, we realise our real being, that we are one, or at least, we realise it a bit more than we usually do. this is only for our ability to interact with our divinity. not for the reiki response in another. once we realise our oneness, we can perform via the illusion of distance, the ability as if we in same room. the reason why we don't recieve healing then, is cause we actually not within that persons auric range, as it's their aura that is experiencing the Reiki response.

it isn't a two way street, how could it be? for it to be a two way street the recipient must also experience that oneness such as HSZSN brings. even a fellow practitioner won't be able to bring the two way street unless they also begin the process of absent healing. so this is why, to me, it's one way, and why there's a difference.

warmest wishes
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:
And since it is't an energy that travels, it's gotta be something else. It's an experience. A occurence, or as James says a 'phenomenon'.

yes, and quite possibly if ever the energy would like 'travelling' it might not, given the energy crisis in todays world, everywhere

and and now seriously, yes again, if reiki was based on travelling of energy from person A to B, why would have been reiki invented first of all? (qi-gong was already well-established there in Usui times)

so Reiki is a happening.

might be, that such happening is Reiki

If i treat someone in-person, as Reiki is actually an aura treatment (we're working on invisible to eye reality that directly affects physical) i do something (treatment/placing hands) that creates a response in another.

(bold script is mine) This is very important concept Wayne... we dont normally think that way... when we see we are placing hands over the body of patient, we are not conscious that such placing of hands is a metaphor of placing our auric hands onto the auric body of the recipient... our physical hands, and their physical body, that is just to translate the response into feelings/sensations... an outcome, not a point of original focus...


perhaps, this is why that during reiji ho, we sometimes find the disease 'outside' the body.... several times i have to repeat a reiji ho scanning twice, thrice or even more just because my hands end up on some point outside the body of the patient... and naturally, how i can place hands on that point since it is in air


it is very surprising though that we give far more importance to chakras witin treatments than giving importance to aura

This response is a spiritual one, that brings oneness, a product of which is healing. it's the person reacting to my ability to interact with my divinity, that is called Reiki. in other words, their reaction is Reiki.

privacy issues aside, any possibility that empowerment through reiki symbols give us a mandate of interacting with divinity of the other person too

since my divinity, and your divinity, in the end, spring from one same source, isnt ? hence, HSZSN !

as it's an aura occurence, if we're also within their auric field, we'll recieve their Reiki response. and be healed also. secondary to the recipient, sicne it's the recipient dictating the Reiki response. this is why we recieve only some healing.

good points to think deep!

this is in stark contrast with other energy modalities where we are taught to believe that patient reciproactes our state of being, and entrains to us...

within reiki, as you've said, we take 'secondary' benefits of his healing taking place, which of course is a result of triggering of a 'singal' when we have interacted with divinity of our own...

in absent healing, we realise our real being, that we are one, or at least, we realise it a bit more than we usually do. this is only for our ability to interact with our divinity. not for the reiki response in another. once we realise our oneness, we can perform via the illusion of distance, the ability as if we in same room. the reason why we don't recieve healing then, is cause we actually not within that persons auric range, as it's their aura that is experiencing the Reiki response.

this is so damn magnificient Wayne i've to think deep still... very good... thanks buddy!

it isn't a two way street, how could it be? for it to be a two way street the recipient must also experience that oneness such as HSZSN brings. even a fellow practitioner won't be able to bring the two way street unless they also begin the process of absent healing. so this is why, to me, it's one way, and why there's a difference.

a question that just popped up... when we do self-treatment meditation... and treat our mirror body just mentally, are we using HSZSN or not ?


take care

salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:
it is very surprising though that we give far more importance to chakras witin treatments than giving importance to aura

omly in the last 30 years, with the new age movement. Takata sensei taught that we use endocrine system.

Lambs-Wool wrote:

privacy issues aside, any possibility that empowerment through reiki symbols give us a mandate of interacting with divinity of the other person too

sure, it has to be that way, but only for initiation i feel. actually, we being a process and their own divinity may being the healing. i havn't got that far to be definite bout that though, and it brings other issues for me, so cant say for sure. what do you think?

quote="Lambs-Wool"]

a question that just popped up... when we do self-treatment meditation... and treat our mirror body just mentally, are we using HSZSN or not ? [/quote]

meditation? as in hatsurei or something? are you talking of James' gokai blessing?

if you invoke HSZSn then you're using it. if you visualise yuorself sitting in a chair say, and you're not in it, imo you're still using HSZSn to a degree.

warmest wishes
Wayne

hi Wayne

thanks buddy

Wayne wrote:

Lambs-Wool wrote:

privacy issues aside, any possibility that empowerment through reiki symbols give us a mandate of interacting with divinity of the other person too

sure, it has to be that way, but only for initiation i feel. actually, we being a process and their own divinity may being the healing. i havn't got that far to be definite bout that though, and it brings other issues for me, so cant say for sure. what do you think?

for initiation, sure we have got a 'mandate' to do something within spirutality of the person (although, we are only part of a big process being controlled elsewhere)... and for treatments?

well, i can say from my personal perspective only... within treatments we are 'one' with the patient....in a way it can be put that person 'responds' to our interaction with our divine.. but that might not be the all of it.... in order to respond to such an interaction, the person needs to involve his divinity too... and this needs our help (maybe through hidden powers / mandate within symbols, and further thourgh Usui's Experience)... when we help creating that response, we are somehow involved with his dinity too, but as a matter of fact, not with his divinity, rather the unifiied divinity, of which patient and us are both parts....

it might be said that when 'oneness' is achieved (or taken to be achieved during a treatment session)... there is no such thing like your divinity, my divinity, his divinity, rather there is only 'divinity', the manifestation of which is healing, and this healing response is called Reiki...

if we include the supereme power or God within the equation, we can safely say that reiki effects occasion since both the practitioner and the healer are directly linked with God within that process... however, this might not be a universally acceptable notion to put forward... so i would rather like to restrict it to myself for just my understanding...and of course, by meaning God, we dont necessarily mean to assume God himself, but his manifestations are, in a way, equivalent to himself, which although incorrect, but is good for taking a simple understanding !

Wayne wrote:

Lambs-Wool wrote:

a question that just popped up... when we do self-treatment meditation... and treat our mirror body just mentally, are we using HSZSN or not ?

meditation? as in hatsurei or something? are you talking of James' gokai blessing?

if you invoke HSZSn then you're using it. if you visualise yuorself sitting in a chair say, and you're not in it, imo you're still using HSZSn to a degree.

self treatment meditation is what we find within many reiki courses... to imagine giving reiki to our own prototype with a view that it will ultimately reach to us...and yes, you just gave the answer too!

take care

salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:

for initiation, sure we have got a 'mandate' to do something within spirutality of the person (although, we are only part of a big process being controlled elsewhere)... and for treatments?

in initiation, the teacher has been gave spiritual permission already, by his onw previous teacher. once the student wants the iniation, i feel we got enough authority to almost carry out a command albeit request, hehe.

in a treatment, we're more passive. we're activating our divinity, and would only make a command or request by using the symbols. we then are active by whatever technqiues we use. after that, the real work, the mandate falls to the client. for their own healing. imo. .

Lambs-Wool wrote:
well, i can say from my personal perspective only... within treatments we are 'one' with the patient....in a way it can be put that person 'responds' to our interaction with our divine.. but that might not be the all of it.... in order to respond to such an interaction, the person needs to involve his divinity too... and this needs our help (maybe through hidden powers / mandate within symbols, and further thourgh Usui's Experience)... when we help creating that response, we are somehow involved with his dinity too, but as a matter of fact, not with his divinity, rather the unifiied divinity, of which patient and us are both parts....

sure, Reiki is a spiritual happening, so for that happening to be created by the client, the client must create that spiritual happening. so they'd use their divinity, maybe.

our symbols give the practitioner the ability to create a situation that creates a healing response in another. a situation in which they can create a spiritual experience.

Lambs-Wool wrote:
if we include the supereme power or God within the equation, we can safely say that reiki effects occasion since both the practitioner and the healer are directly linked with God within that process... however, this might not be a universally acceptable notion to put forward... so i would rather like to restrict it to myself for just my understanding...and of course, by meaning God, we dont necessarily mean to assume God himself, but his manifestations are, in a way, equivalent to himself, which although incorrect, but is good for taking a simple understanding !

i feel it's touching God, though many others don't, and that's cool.


warmest wishes
Wayne