rubyberrie wrote:Hi everyone

Does anyone know what would happen if you did not get the symbol exactly right?

I sometimes struggle with the remembering the distance symbol, do you think it would still work?

I also read somewhere that the symbols are not always necessary as long as you set your intention, would love to know your comments and if you think that would help me when I sometimes get the symbols wrong

Why don't you try it and see what happens.

It takes practice to remember the symbols.
If you look at the picture while practicing
it will enhance your visual memory

If you check out symbol section in this forum you will find that many of us have different understanding/approach to the symbols. Some reiki students who have reached level 3 do not use any other symbols but the DKM while many still use all the reiki symbols.

So I agree with Bridget that you should experiment and see what works for you.

Regards,

Find Out How Learnig Reiki Can Change Your Life

Hi

I have not always got the symbols right. I thought I had learned the distant symbol right and used it and it worked fine.
Then after a while I looked at the picture and found out I have not done it "right", but saying the name and having the intention made it right.

When you search the internet for pictures, you will see that the symbol comes in many forms, so many of us don't do it the same way, but it still works.

Regards
Lisel

ULFE works with or without the symbols.
Using the symbols gives meaning to the
balance & harmony they represent within
the Reiki system

Using symbols is something psychological rather than something mysterious.
A symbol is nothing more than a visual representation of something else. A symbol is not the same as the thing it represents. It is just a drawing.

The traffic sign "Stop" wants you to stop. It is a symbol, it is just a drawing. It has no power of its own. It only makes people stop because they associate certain behaviour or certain effects with the sign.
The sign "stop" is just a visual representation of "the act of stopping". It is not the same as "the act of stopping". I think everyone understands that.

So, a Reiki symbol works because you associate a certain meaning, action or experience with it. If the association is strong, it doesn't really matter whether you draw the symbol according to how you learned to draw it. As long as you associate that particular meaning with the drawing you make.

*Gasshō*
Frank

hi Rubyberrie

As Resko said, you can notice that we reiki community has different approaches about symbols... they are often considered 'training wheels' 'anchors' 'psychological associations' etc. however, i will only say what i personally feel about symbols...

our initiations are brought about through symbols... symbols are 'put' into the student... while 'putting' the symbols might be a of a metaphoric appearance, it is at least true that there is a process of "matching of id's" within an initiation... when i was initiated to level two, my teacher put HSZSN and SHK in my hands and in my head and in my forehead, etc. even if we take a non-physical view of this process, and even if we opt to reject the view that symbols are 'put' into somewhere... this does not change the basics... an attunement matches the energetic id of a student with id of the symbol...

when we draw a symbol we are calling that id-match... or other words we are calling that symbol... if even if we don't draw a symbol, but use our 'intent' to do something that we would do through a symbol, yet again we are calling that 'symbol'... pesonally, i will not see a situation where reiki would be generated without calling a symbol... when we say that people can use 'intent' and their concentration powers, etc. to do away with symbols, i wonder if we say we are doing reiki without symbols ?


an interesting analogy in writing computer programs, the programmers often use 'stored procedures'... a stored procedure is a mini-code that within which programmer has defined certain variables and has stored certain actions' syntax within it(like you would use 'macro' function within MS excel)... while writing the computer program code, the programmer often 'calls' stored procedures, and all the functions he had nested in the 'stored procedures' are immediately put into action.... i see that symbols are like 'stored procedures' which had been spiritually programmed by Usui Sensei... so when we call them, we are calling some aspects of excellent spiritual mandates of Usui Sensei


to your particular question : if you fail to draw symbol correctly, will it work? i feel yes... since when you draw symbols, you are not doing something yourself, rather you are calling something that was 'stored' inside symbols... so your intent somehow replaces your active drawing of symbol... but needless to say, that when symbols are actively drawn, they do have powers to create a certain atmosphere/energetic culture around you and within you, and this is certainly much more refined than the situation you would have activated symbols just by intent


if you have problems drawing symbols particularly HSZSN, you always know you have an enormous potential to overcome such petty problems

take care

salman

Those are wonderful comparisons.
I agree with you.. up to the point where you state that Usui-sensei spiritually programmed the symbols. In my experience, that's not true. There is nothing stored in the symbols. They are just drawings. Just like there is nothing stored in traffic signs (they are not spiritually programmed by the government).

However, that does not mean they are worthless. They are very helpful and for many people they are necessary.

You associate them with a particular energetic experience or a state of mind/being yourself. If you do want to talk about programming.. you programme yourself to generate a certain energy when thinking about a specific drawing/sign.
The sign itself is not programmed, people using the sign are programmed.

But that's from my point of view, of course. I just wanted to share this.

*Gasshō*
Frank

thanks Frank

It is very good that we share our perception of things... Who knows that i might be sharing your feelings some day

Take care

Salman

Hi Frank,

In my opinion.....a symbol is not a traffic sign...just like the cricifix is not a fence post.

If a person can charge a crystal with reiki and said crystal radiates reiki, then how can you be so sure that an object(symbol)cannot be more than just a shape. After all, a rock is just a rock,right? There is spiritual magic involved in reiki.

There is alot of speculation regarding Usui`s method of empowerment of the symbols.
Buddhist/Shinto influences should not be forgotten when considering the symbols.

I always hesitate when I think I have an idea of what the symbols really are...If I become sure i know what they are,then, quite possibly, I have limited the symbols to what my ego is comfortable with. I look at them as sacred objects which I respect, and never fully expect to understand. In that way,I`m not setting any expectations or limitations when i interact with them....I suppose some would say I`m crazy, but I have the most interesting experiences through the symbols this way.

Jim

Hi,

I know that 'my' statements about symbols are pretty controversial in the Reiki community.
If I had said it to myself when I first started Reiki (Western system), then I wouldn't believe it either.

It is a different view, I know. And I don't expect anyone to agree with me.
This is the way it has been taught to me and it is so incredibly logical for me that it is purely something psychological in stead of something mysterious or magical. We humans think in symbols and symbols trigger certain experiences associated with them.

But in the end, the other ways of using symbols work as well.
If a student can connect to the energy that is meant or if he/she can enter the state of mind that is meant, it doesn't really matter how he/she believes the symbols work.

I believe a student of Usui-sensei would eventually realize why the symbols work as they do, once he/she completed Shinpiden.

Oh, I do want to add: everything is within us. There is no need for external tools once one realizes this. I strongly feel that Usui wanted to teach us that.
I believe he wanted to teach his students a way of becoming one within themselves, one with their surroundings, one with the universe, one with the Light... to "achieve personal perfection".. to know our true self, our true power.. to be independent and not dependent on external tools but to find all answers in ourself.

(Tools are very good, of course, and one must not let them go when still needing them. Hiroshi Doi states: Although the symbols are useful, they become unnecessary once you understand the essence of the energy )

*Gasshō*
Frank

Thanks Jim and Frank

We have these two interesting points of view and both 'might be' correct human mind itself is a big mystery and the way Frank introduces the logic of psychological associations with symbols, it has a big logical appeal to a logical mind. But i wonder if reiki operates 'logically' ??

I m missing Resko on this point, he always has interesting insights when someone is talking about mind matters.

No offence Frank, but i disagree when u say that when a person had progressed to shinpiden under Usui, he would have understood how symbols work.... I have doubts on this bro...


Spiritual empowerment of some thing, some word, some symbol by a person of high spiritual potential, is something that can be found in many systems besides reiki.... Usui Sensei was a spiritual giant while his system started with reiju involving no symbols, he certainly seems to have 'revealed' symbols at a later stage to convert his system from 'transmittory' (i.e., reiju) to 'initiatory' (i.e., denju)...

I find my mind truly agreed to Jim here that it is our logical mind which tries to understand things that have been expressly declared as 'in comprehensable' by people like Takata sensei... Certainly symbols DO have the psychological tendencies as u very aptly described Frank, but is this the whole of the truth ?

Again i m giving an analogy... When we install a software program we run the 'setup.exe' file... There are programs which 'create' these setup files (setup compilers)... A setup compiler converts (encrypts) the written program code into a setup file.... No one can de-encrypt that setup.exe to 'extract' the original writtten code.... So maybe we have CKR.exe, SHK.exe our intent seems to 'run' the application on our energetic platform, i.e on us!


Hey, even if wrong, i so much enjoyed in making thnis analogy

Take care

Salman

It is a very nice analogy. Whether it is right or wrong, it always sounds nice to compare Reiki (and/or its elements) to computers and other technical stuff.

Lambs-Wool wrote:he certainly seems to have 'revealed' symbols at a later stage to convert his system from 'transmittory' (i.e., reiju) to 'initiatory' (i.e., denju)...

In 1915 he already used the mantras (jumon). In 1923 he introduced the symbols.
As far as I now Usui gave reiju, not denju. Some believe he didn't even need a physical ritual to be able to do it (I believe that's true, because when giving reiju it is not about the physical movements, it's about the spiritual and energetic mechanism).

Where did you find that Usui-sensei certainly used symbols in some initiatory ritual at some point?

Introducing symbols (1923) for students to work with doesn't necessarily mean that Usui-sensei used them in reiju/denju.

Lambs-Wool wrote:We have these two interesting points of view and both 'might be' correct

It certainly is
I enjoy this conversation.

*Gasshō*
Frank

EDIT :
following the question put by Frank that whether Usui did use symbols in an initiation ritual, i have started a discussion in an independent thread called "origins of Denju" in reiki historical research section :

http://www.reikilearninglounge.com/spiritual-historical-research-f12/origins-of-denju-t1166.htm#12542

all are requested to share their point of view as they feel would be of help in unfolding the 'breathing' history of reiki

take care

Salman

Frank wrote:Hi,

I know that 'my' statements about symbols are pretty controversial in the Reiki community.
If I had said it to myself when I first started Reiki (Western system), then I wouldn't believe it either.

It is a different view, I know. And I don't expect anyone to agree with me.
This is the way it has been taught to me and it is so incredibly logical for me that it is purely something psychological in stead of something mysterious or magical. We humans think in symbols and symbols trigger certain experiences associated with them.

But in the end, the other ways of using symbols work as well.
If a student can connect to the energy that is meant or if he/she can enter the state of mind that is meant, it doesn't really matter how he/she believes the symbols work.

I believe a student of Usui-sensei would eventually realize why the symbols work as they do, once he/she completed Shinpiden.

Oh, I do want to add: everything is within us. There is no need for external tools once one realizes this. I strongly feel that Usui wanted to teach us that.
I believe he wanted to teach his students a way of becoming one within themselves, one with their surroundings, one with the universe, one with the Light... to "achieve personal perfection".. to know our true self, our true power.. to be independent and not dependent on external tools but to find all answers in ourself.

(Tools are very good, of course, and one must not let them go when still needing them. Hiroshi Doi states: Although the symbols are useful, they become unnecessary once you understand the essence of the energy )

*Gasshō*
Frank

Hi Frank,

I do not think you`re position on the symbols is controversial at all. I had some of these same thoughts a few years ago and dismissed them when I felt that belief began to limit my experiences. One thing I have learned in the "reiki experience" is that as soon as my logical mind assumes that it understands something, it starts to try and control the construct of the experience, always looking for familiar patterns, so it can feel safe and secure in it`s delusion of control. When you do enough meditation and stay in a trance like state for days or weeks on end, you get introduced to a universe that does not play by all the same rules of physics as we experience in a normal life. And quite hinestly it`s more than a little unnerving for the ego, as it has no rule book or pattern of expectation to rely on. The ego needs understanding, but this understanding also limits ones ability to step further towards being open to the experience.

Sometimes I have thought it a mistake to pursue what we do here at the forum...Trying to educate our Ego in Reiki, when what we should be doing is experiencing reiki without expectation, judgement or concern for whether or not it agress with someone elses opinion.

Hence my opinion on the symbols.

Jim

omg, thats a brilliant, amazing and enlightening thought my dear Jim

Superb!
Outstanding!

I feel proud that i communicating with gems like you and Frank.

All my love to your wisdom buddy!



Take care

Salman