The breath is ULFE.

Without it we would not exist

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:That is what i was led to believe by my teacher Ezri....seems not all masters were taught this or infact use this.. once again i am confused by conflicting ideas....

So let's say you took your teacher training today Sharon. But the breath empowerment wasn't taught. You'd then be passing on an initiation, that may work sure on some level, but you'd have no way of knowing how important the breath emwpowerment was, since you'd never been taught anything bout it.

And even folks that are taught how to do it, often arn't taught how important it is, or even why it's done. Folks have to go research that themselves, and if they're lucky, find out.

Wayne wrote:

Salman wrote:
your respected teacher must have blended the breathwork with initiation ritual in a very fantastic way, no doubts, but did her hold out that the breathing work was 'a part of' the initiation work ?

the sweetening the breath is used as well as the hand movements/placement in initiations. it is a part of the Reiki initiation.

having not been to masters' initiation, the concept of 'sweetening of breath' is not in my knowledge

i'll see it later!

Wayne wrote:
I've more clarification of my own views later in this post, but part of it's obvious i feel that the inclusion of things not Reiki has lead to the exclusion of things Reiki. So much so that when folks try to generate talk about Reiki specific things, if it doesn't fit into folks current interests, the person starting the talk can be looked down upon. This can be obvious, but sometimes more subtle, and it's so common folks don't even recoqnise it.

reiki apparently invites discussions to other spirituality related issues, and times those related issues are so 'spicy' that we start discussing them at length, even to the excuse of main topic specifically about reiki...

its natural ! although not 'desirable' !

Ezri wrote:
but if someone experiences the full initiation ritual, then they are initiated with all the (latent) inherent capabilities of a Reiki master, whether or not they have been instructed in the "form" (how to express these capabilities).

and, if for example, they somehow dont acquire that instruction meanwhile, and they keep on initiating other people, does this 'latent' inherent capabilities also get transferred to their students always ? (well, i feel yes, since this is what we call 'jewel' of reiki, that whether or not one is cognizant, reiki initiation works well to the full extent)

Wayne wrote:

Salman wrote:

'throwing all the symbols in all the chakras of the student' and selectively programming some or one of them to be active, and others to be dormant till the next level' might not be an ideal practice always... i mean to say... what if a master had some sessions with students giving them reiju, giving them an appetite for the reiki feeling, and then gradually initiating them to level one... and so on...

any thought on this Wayne ??

It depends on what way the symbols are used in the intiation, which dictates what way the spiritual empowerment is. For instance, to draw & say DKM could in fact initiate into the use of DKM, at level 1!

the 'way' symbols are used ? does that mean that our intention primarily allots a character to the working of symbols ? if i would initiate somebody by placing a symbol within the peson and give a silent command that it should be not be activated untill next level, which of these two actions would be validated ? (since i take them as mutually exclusive)


take care

salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:

the 'way' symbols are used ?

the places they're placed, and whether they're drew, spoke, or both.

Lambs-Wool wrote:
does that mean that our intention primarily allots a character to the working of symbols ?

Not on it's own. Like i was suggesting, some use DKM in level 1, and depending on how it's used, the master could be unwittenly intiating to master level. this is against their intention.

Lambs-Wool wrote:
if i would initiate somebody by placing a symbol within the peson and give a silent command that it should be not be activated untill next level, which of these two actions would be validated ? (since i take them as mutually exclusive)

This is difficult to answer salman, cause it's level 3, . But the very actions a teacher carries out in initiation is doing this, or, like i'm suggesting, is also not doing it. Once things are changed.

warmest wishes
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:That is what i was led to believe by my teacher Ezri....seems not all masters were taught this or infact use this.. once again i am confused by conflicting ideas....

So let's say you took your teacher training today Sharon. But the breath empowerment wasn't taught. You'd then be passing on an initiation, that may work sure on some level, but you'd have no way of knowing how important the breath emwpowerment was, since you'd never been taught anything bout it.

And even folks that are taught how to do it, often arn't taught how important it is, or even why it's done. Folks have to go research that themselves, and if they're lucky, find out.

i'm not getting the gist of your ideas here way....If I was taught to give initiations/attunements in a certain way by my reiki master, then obviously that would be the way I would teach/attune others.....

what I'm not understanding is if the breath is such a powerful and important part of the attunement process ( as I was led to believe)then why on earth has it come to pass that not all masters seem to take this into account and apply the teaching accordingly? * is confused*

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Wayne wrote:

Salman wrote:
your respected teacher must have blended the breathwork with initiation ritual in a very fantastic way, no doubts, but did her hold out that the breathing work was 'a part of' the initiation work ?

the sweetening the breath is used as well as the hand movements/placement in initiations. it is a part of the Reiki initiation.

having not been to masters' initiation, the concept of 'sweetening of breath' is not in my knowledge

i'll see it later!

Wayne wrote:
I've more clarification of my own views later in this post, but part of it's obvious i feel that the inclusion of things not Reiki has lead to the exclusion of things Reiki. So much so that when folks try to generate talk about Reiki specific things, if it doesn't fit into folks current interests, the person starting the talk can be looked down upon. This can be obvious, but sometimes more subtle, and it's so common folks don't even recoqnise it.

reiki apparently invites discussions to other spirituality related issues, and times those related issues are so 'spicy' that we start discussing them at length, even to the excuse of main topic specifically about reiki...

its natural ! although not 'desirable' !

Ezri wrote:
but if someone experiences the full initiation ritual, then they are initiated with all the (latent) inherent capabilities of a Reiki master, whether or not they have been instructed in the "form" (how to express these capabilities).

and, if for example, they somehow dont acquire that instruction meanwhile, and they keep on initiating other people, does this 'latent' inherent capabilities also get transferred to their students always ? (well, i feel yes, since this is what we call 'jewel' of reiki, that whether or not one is cognizant, reiki initiation works well to the full extent)

Wayne wrote:

Salman wrote:

'throwing all the symbols in all the chakras of the student' and selectively programming some or one of them to be active, and others to be dormant till the next level' might not be an ideal practice always... i mean to say... what if a master had some sessions with students giving them reiju, giving them an appetite for the reiki feeling, and then gradually initiating them to level one... and so on...

any thought on this Wayne ??

It depends on what way the symbols are used in the intiation, which dictates what way the spiritual empowerment is. For instance, to draw & say DKM could in fact initiate into the use of DKM, at level 1!

the 'way' symbols are used ? does that mean that our intention primarily allots a character to the working of symbols ? if i would initiate somebody by placing a symbol within the peson and give a silent command that it should be not be activated untill next level, which of these two actions would be validated ? (since i take them as mutually exclusive)


take care

salman

Salman, I assumed you were taught to Master level.....

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:

Milarepa wrote:

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:That is what i was led to believe by my teacher Ezri....seems not all masters were taught this or infact use this.. once again i am confused by conflicting ideas....

So let's say you took your teacher training today Sharon. But the breath empowerment wasn't taught. You'd then be passing on an initiation, that may work sure on some level, but you'd have no way of knowing how important the breath emwpowerment was, since you'd never been taught anything bout it.

And even folks that are taught how to do it, often arn't taught how important it is, or even why it's done. Folks have to go research that themselves, and if they're lucky, find out.

i'm not getting the gist of your ideas here way....If I was taught to give initiations/attunements in a certain way by my reiki master, then obviously that would be the way I would teach/attune others.....

what I'm not understanding is if the breath is such a powerful and important part of the attunement process ( as I was led to believe)then why on earth has it come to pass that not all masters seem to take this into account and apply the teaching accordingly? * is confused*

Hi Sharon,
This is the point of what i said, . it's been excluded cause teachers wern't taught the knowledge of how important it is. somewhere, someone decided to take out Reiki stuff, and include whatever else. so the knowledge has slowly started to become lost, like much else.

There'll still be a spiritual empowerment without it, but imo, it was included and used for a reason.

This kinda goes to the new topic of colins, and what Dan simpson wrote about masters. folks are taught to be a master, but care isn't took as to whom is taught. so the new 'master' changes things, and we lose out somewhere down in lineage.

warmest wishes
Wayne

Sharon wrote:
Salman, I assumed you were taught to Master level.....

ah, i m not yet

well, in the beginning certainly there was sorta 'rush' to get to the next elevation i.e., the masters' level, but this was as natural as every human's psychology

as i try to get to know more, and to feel more, i feel i must take good knowledge and feel the depths before i get the tag... so that i at least know what i m getting the tag for

how strange that the more we keep on knowing, the more we feel we dont know


to teach, to counsel others, to discuss and share things, is like my second nature, and a basic fabric of my personality....

i have had more than 1000 students in decade that is going to end (some professional teaching areas) and students always feel comfortable and happy in my company... so i assume i will have to start professional teaching in reiki when ripe time comes...

as a personal experience i have realized it so many times that without teaching a knowledge does not gets roots deep within us... and reiki is no exception


how you did not opt for mastership yet Sharon ? must have been a deep reason, i suppose ?


take care

salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Wayne wrote:

Salman wrote:
does that mean that our intention primarily allots a character to the working of symbols ?

Not on it's own. Like i was suggesting, some use DKM in level 1, and depending on how it's used, the master could be unwittenly intiating to master level. this is against their intention.

it feels tricky to me also.. .sometimes i reconcile this way, and feel the other end still not tied up, and sometimes quite the opposite...

intention is sometimes like a foreword or preamble within which light we try to interprent over actions....

in criminal jurisprudence, we have two phrases 'actus rea' and 'mens rea' that are universally summed up in 'the acts not guilty, unless the mind be guilty'...

sometimes things go beyond intention in real life too... in islamic teachings, if someone swears upon god, may it be a routine act for that buddy, he is sworne in, no matter his intention was to swear upon or not... similarly, in muslim family laws if a husband utters the words of divorce to his spouse, divorce is enacted, no matter he was drunk, or was under lunatic asylum, or under extreme anger...whatever, so acts go beyond intention in these examples...

if a person goes to kill somebody, has a weapon loaded, and for some reason just changes intention on the last moment, but alas, he had already pulled the triggered, he will sure be charged for murder i think, no matter his intention didnt stand last to the last moment...


taking analogy for such day to day examples, we are somehow arriving at a thought that if a master initiates for DKM in level one, the person IS initiated, technically speaking, althought the intention of the master was something not this one.... ?

what i sort of conclude that our intention is supplemental to true working of symbols, and no way overriding upon them in the way we might experiment to choose ?

take care

salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:


taking analogy for such day to day examples, we are somehow arriving at a thought that if a master initiates for DKM in level one, the person IS initiated, technically speaking, althought the intention of the master was something not this one.... ?

It's not as much a "i'm gonna initiate you into level 1" thought process, but it's the actual actions in attunements that dictate what that attunement is. so the actions th eteacher performs, whether they know what they're doing or not, is what ultimately dictates what they're being empowered with.

Lambs-Wool wrote:
what i sort of conclude that our intention is supplemental to true working of symbols, and no way overriding upon them in the way we might experiment to choose ?

if you mean 'thought/wishes' by intention, then our actions are that - but also reinforced by physical enactment.

the way a teacher uses their speech, hands, etc, is what dictates the intention of the spiritual empowerment. I can't say much more than this atm, .

Warmest wishes
Wayne

Lambs-Wool wrote:taking analogy for such day to day examples, we are somehow arriving at a thought that if a master initiates for DKM in level one, the person IS initiated, technically speaking, althought the intention of the master was something not this one.... ?

what i sort of conclude that our intention is supplemental to true working of symbols, and no way overriding upon them in the way we might experiment to choose ?

take care

salman

Wise words Salman - as usual!

I think your views are very close to mine!

We hear and read about people being "attuned to Reiki", "attuned to Level 1", "attuned to Level whatever" and also that "Reiki 2 allows you to channel 50% more Reiki" but does this really make any sense?

As Usui sensei realised when he had his experience on Mt Kurama: "I am in the Universe and the Universe is in me!" and Mrs Takata said that the "true energy" is within at "the bottom of the stomach about 2 inches below the navel."

Usui also said that: "Every being has healing power. Plants, trees, animals, fish and insects but especially a human, as pinnacle of creation, has a remarkable power. Usui Reiki Ryoho has appeared to make use of the healing power that humans have".

This would indicate that we all already have the power/energy/Reiki within us - we are not being attuned to anything external. In my view, the levels of Reiki and the Reiki symbols are external things, so we are not being attuned to a particular Reiki level or any particular symbols. However, the use of symbols (in various ways)in the initiation ceremony is important for the purpose of helping a student become conscious of the power/energy/Reiki within and help remove any psychological blocks to using that power/energy/Reiki.

The symbols are also part of the actual system of Usui which enables us to use, in specific ways, what we have become conscious of. However, the symbols themselves transcend the levels of Reiki.

The levels of Reiki are there to give some structure to what is taught to students so that they may progress at their own pace, without having to take in everything at once. How those levels are divided and what is in each level has become fairly standardized but it was not always so and the number of levels has changed a number of times since Usui's system was first taught.

There were no fixed time limits between the levels. Usui sensei said he would teach Okuden "to people who have learned Shoden, who are good students, well behaved, moral, honest and enthusiastic".

Due to distance, expense and other commitments, Chujiro Hayashi often taught Shoden and Okuden over five consecutive days when he was travelling round Japan teaching.

The real way to progress in Reiki is to practice what you have been taught so far, whether that is Shoden only or Shoden and Okuden over a few days (or, dare I say it, all three levels together!). The more techniques you have been taught, the longer it will take for you to fully experience what each technique has to offer.

To my mind, this is the really important period where there needs to be a time to reflect on and practice what you have learned, before taking the next step and deciding to teach others (or attending a Shinpiden or a Teacher course). Of course, teaching is not everyone's cup of tea and not everyone wants to go on and teach, which is fine because Shoden is all you need to practice Reiki in the majority of cases, with Okuden giving you some extra tools and techniques to help you offer a wider range of help. Shinpiden gives you a deeper understanding of the spiritual nature of Reiki and how to pass the Reiki experience on to others.

Back to attunements though. I think that once a student has received the first four attunements at Shoden (or Level 1) they are now aware of the Reiki within them and become able to use it, thanks to the initiation procedure, however it was done. Initiations at other levels may only re-enforce students consciousness of Reiki within, with the symbols emphasizing certain aspects of that consciousness and allowing a deeper expereince of the techniques using those symbols.

They also have the ability to use any of the techniques they have been taught but, not only that, they would also be able to use any of the techniques that they learn about themselves. Although, the degree of understanding and/or effectiveness of techniques would depend on the information they have found and how well they have understood that information. As we all know, reading from a book or website (or even watching a video) is really no substitute for learning in person from a teacher who has actual experience and knowledge of what he/she is teaching.

Dear Colin

Colin wrote:
I think your views are very close to mine!

i m in the process of being 'entrained' when i m talking with personalities like you are sir

Colin wrote:
We hear and read about people being "attuned to Reiki", "attuned to Level 1", "attuned to Level whatever" and also that

"Reiki 2 allows you to channel 50% more Reiki" but does this really make any sense?

although it does not but at least it sometimes serves good in creating a mental imagery of what we are doing in reiki...

it is a good help when people begin their path in reiki (but equally more hazardous, if they stick to what they started with

)

Colin wrote:
As Usui sensei realised when he had his experience on Mt Kurama: "I am in the Universe and the Universe is in me!" and Mrs

Takata said that the "true energy" is within at "the bottom of the stomach about 2 inches below the navel."

Usui also said that: "Every being has healing power. Plants, trees, animals, fish and insects but especially a human, as

pinnacle of creation, has a remarkable power. Usui Reiki Ryoho has appeared to make use of the healing power that humans

have".

well, personal healing potential vis-a-vis reiki empowerment is a very interesting subject to study and keep discussin about



i remember you were so kind to guide me on some points when we discussed the concepts 'being reiki' in bebo days.... and i

always carry a sweet memory of your thoughts expressed with a spontaniety of maturity and zeal alike...


on the particular, what i feel that if we say we borrow healing power from reiki, it might not appear convincing to my

thinking... and equally if we say that reiki enables us to utilize our own healing potential all the time, this could be the

other extreme..

when we are in reiki, we are in contact with a continuous 'signalling system' started by Usui Sensei and later handed down

to us through the lineage bearers... that system is constantly there, and keeps on triggering our own system without stops...

reiki is something (pardon my big words Colin ) that ignites a reciproacting response in us... opens our own energy

channels, improves our innate healing ability, and the sumtotal is what we say "reiki has a healing power"... if we go by

results, reiki sure has, if we go by the mechanism reiki enables us to do healing.....


a reason that i sometime vouch for 'permission within reiki' is also based on this fact... when we seek permission to do

reiki for somebody, we are not seeking permission rather in that act of giving permission, that buddy is conciously or

unconciously opening up his healing potential to be in tune with what reiki will do with them once in action...


but interesting thing is that even when we dont seek permission and give reiki anyways, the effects are still seen, and that

buddy can later endorse that he 'had' felt soemthing on that particular moment... this is where we feel that our picture and

explanation about reiki is half-complete... and we strive to find more onwards...

thats why reiki is continuous path, and learning is never completed in reiki

Colin wrote:
This would indicate that we all already have the power/energy/Reiki within us - we are not being attuned to anything

external.

yes, we have power and energy within us, but perhaps not reiki the initiation gives us a mandate to access what Usui was

blessed with, and when we access it, we consciously or unconciously, knowing or unnkowingly, we revert to our own energy,

with a difference that our utilization potential has enhanced...


but seeing it in a way that reiki is 'external' to us, might also be not correct imo.. having reiki means we are having a

link to Usui's spirituality, as per the mandate he coiled in the symbols, but what his spirituality does to us per se ? i

feel, our divinity, our personalized spirituality tries to entrain with Usui's, and thus enhances itself manifold, and when

the sprirituality is triggered, the healing comes naturally along



indeed, when we try to see reiki as a helaing energy, or a healing modality, we might be taking only the half picture...

spirituality is akin to healing, but healing isnt not always akin to spiriutality... if we try to explain reiki as a healing

energy, this is mind boggling (to me at least ), but if i try to explain reiki as sprituality and then healing through

this, this makes my life easy


oh, i sound too authoritative here let me be saved of this by floating your comments right away!

Colin wrote:

In my view, the levels of Reiki and the Reiki symbols are external things, so we are not being attuned to a particular Reiki

level or any particular symbols. However, the use of symbols (in various ways)in the initiation ceremony is important for the

purpose of helping a student become conscious of the power/energy/Reiki within and help remove any psychological blocks to

using that power/energy/Reiki.

initiation makes reiki accessible to a student, but not consiciously available immediately, since this comes with gradual

practice... we hear that with practice reiki flow has become better, reiki is channeled in 'bigger' amounts, etc. i feel this

is an 'over-simplified' version of whats actually going on my views are that as we keep on practicing reiki, we are

transferring the already accessible reiki to consciously accessible reiki the increased in flow of reiki can be taken in

terms of incremental awareness on our part of what we had from the day one of our initiation...


once you explained something called toitsu (i dont readily remember the phrase though) in which we practice enhancing our

perception of energy in focussed areas of our body... i feel that while praticing reiki more and more, we are doing the same

with reiki too, the difference being that we are not only gaining incremental perception of the existence of (energy) but

also of our spiritual presence, something that includes the former too

Colin wrote:


.........however, the symbols themselves transcend the levels of Reiki.

i feel the same Colin sometimes when we have sort of 'graded' the system like first one is CKR, the Second (better ? ) one

is SHK, and then HSZSN, and so on, this might be just our categorization... what i feel is that HSZSN is the first symbol

always.. it is the basis of connection, and therefore the basis of reiki too... that it is taught or initiated in level 2,

does not necessarily mean that it comes after CKR or SHK always (although, in initiations, it runs so..)


and logically speaking, once connection is not there, what is CKR supposed to 'boost' ?


the beauty of discussions about reiki also rests in the fact that sometimes we open mouth with 'big' suppositions, which

invariably we have not tested in our self-lab, but once we have spoken about them loud, their visible analysis on our

conscious and unconcious levels becomes more profound, more deep !

Colin wrote:

The levels of Reiki are there to give some structure to what is taught to students so that they may progress at their own

pace, without having to take in everything at once. How those levels are divided and what is in each level has become fairly

standardized but it was not always so and the number of levels has changed a number of times since Usui's system was first

taught.

There were no fixed time limits between the levels. Usui sensei said he would teach Okuden "to people who have learned

Shoden, who are good students, well behaved, moral, honest and enthusiastic".

since others have echoed with the same 'logic' of having levels within reiki, i find it as a consensus therefore

like rome was not built in a day, reiki needs to be ingrined in us gradually, slowly and beautifully!

Colin wrote:
Due to distance, expense and other commitments, Chujiro Hayashi often taught Shoden and Okuden over five consecutive days

when he was travelling round Japan teaching.

The real way to progress in Reiki is to practice what you have been taught so far, whether that is Shoden only or Shoden and

Okuden over a few days (or, dare I say it, all three levels together!). The more techniques you have been taught, the longer

it will take for you to fully experience what each technique has to offer.

thats brilliant Colin this should be in our minds to save ourselves from something 'spiritual materialism'

Colin wrote:
To my mind, this is the really important period where there needs to be a time to reflect on and practice what you have

learned, before taking the next step and deciding to teach others (or attending a Shinpiden or a Teacher course). Of course,

teaching is not everyone's cup of tea and not everyone wants to go on and teach, which is fine because Shoden is all you need

to practice Reiki in the majority of cases, with Okuden giving you some extra tools and techniques to help you offer a wider

range of help. Shinpiden gives you a deeper understanding of the spiritual nature of Reiki and how to pass the Reiki

experience on to others.

well, it might be something to consider again that can we merge level one and level two ? and technically speaking when we

offer level 1 and level 2 on consecutive days, is it 'equivalent' of merging the two levels ?


having said so many things about the 'rationale' of having levels one and two, is there any rationale of merging the two too

??


and again the following words have an answer already :

Colin wrote:

Back to attunements though. I think that once a student has received the first four attunements at Shoden (or Level 1) they

are now aware of the Reiki within them and become able to use it, thanks to the initiation procedure, however it was done.

Initiations at other levels may only re-enforce students consciousness of Reiki within, with the symbols emphasizing certain

aspects of that consciousness and allowing a deeper expereince of the techniques using those symbols.

Colin wrote:
They also have the ability to use any of the techniques they have been taught but, not only that, they would also be able to

use any of the techniques that they learn about themselves.

and on the same notes, a student, on becoming master, then might be able to 'relay' the things he has personally discovered,

when he initiates others ?


it is a big question, imo what we have been lately discussing here on RLL is somewhat a concept that people making up the

lineage ladder, also keep on adding to it down to next member !



take care


salman