So we got a Master certificate signed by Chujiro Hayashi in 1938. Signed btw, in joined english writing, in western format (indicating he spoke english/knew what he was signing).

We're told: 'after a course of study and training in the Usui system of Reiki healing undertaken under my personal su-pervision during a visit to Japan in 1935' To have a live-in student in Japan is a momentous honour, a huge deal.

On that cerificate, Hayashi sensei says that the profession in question is 'Dr. Usui's Reiki system of healing'. Note the appreviation 'Dr'. Note also 'Usuis Reiki system' please.

The certificate then goes on to say that 'do hereby con-fer upon Mrs. Hawayo Takata the full power and authority to practice the Reiki system and to impart to others the secret knowledge and the gift of healing under this system'.

source:http://www.aetw.org/reiki_takata_cert.html

So, when Takata sensei said Usui sensei was a Doctor, she was lieing, even though Usui sensei's student signed a certificate to that effect!

When a highly trained live-in student of Hayashi sensei get's taught the system of Mikao Usui, and is made one of only thirteen qualified to pass that system on, for some strange reason both Takata sensei & Usui Shiki Ryoho are constantly discredited.

What's the problem with recoqnising that Chujiro Hayashi taught the healing system of Usui sensei to Hawayo Takata?

Of course to do that would immediately recoqnise that Usui Shiki Ryoho (as Takata sensei taught) is more original than any other style...

God forbid we let truth get in the way of anything,

Warmest wishes
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:
When a highly trained live-in student of Hayashi sensei get's taught the system of Mikao Usui, and is made one of only thirteen qualified to pass that system on, for some strange reason both Takata sensei & Usui Shiki Ryoho are constantly discredited.

Who is this highly-trained student?

Milarepa wrote:So we got a Master certificate signed by Chujiro Hayashi in 1938. Signed btw, in joined english writing, in western format (indicating he spoke english/knew what he was signing).

Hello Wayne.


It does seem most likely Dr Hayashi, who was a Naval Officer, did speak English. A friend who knows about Japanese Naval history once told me that even in the time of the Meiji, the Imperial Navy Academy had instructors to teach the officers (?) to speak, read and write English as the Imperial Navy was modelled on the British one.

On that cerificate, Hayashi sensei says that the profession in question is 'Dr. Usui's Reiki system of healing'. Note the appreviation 'Dr'. Note also 'Usuis Reiki system' please.

This is a good observation!

The fact that Dr Hayashi referred to Mikao Usui on an officially notarised document as “Dr.” definitely helps dispel the myth that the idea of Mikao Usui being a doctor was a story made up by Takata.


It really saddens me that while so many people claim that Takata “made up stories”, i.e lied, the real “made up stories” seem to be ones ABOUT Takata

Why do people feel the need to dishonour her?


EZRI

Buck wrote:

Milarepa wrote:
When a highly trained live-in student of Hayashi sensei get's taught the system of Mikao Usui, and is made one of only thirteen qualified to pass that system on, for some strange reason both Takata sensei & Usui Shiki Ryoho are constantly discredited.

Who is this highly-trained student?

Takata sensei. It's fair to assume someone who lived with the teacher (Hayashi sensei) for a year, and worked alongside him every day with the obvious daily training. Far, far superior than anything encountered in Reiki nowadays, .

EzriReiki wrote:

Milarepa wrote:So we got a Master certificate signed by Chujiro Hayashi in 1938. Signed btw, in joined english writing, in western format (indicating he spoke english/knew what he was signing).

Hello Wayne.


It does seem most likely Dr Hayashi, who was a Naval Officer, did speak English. A friend who knows about Japanese Naval history once told me that even in the time of the Meiji, the Imperial Navy Academy had instructors to teach the officers (?) to speak, read and write English as the Imperial Navy was modelled on the British one.

ahh, i never knew this! Thanks for sharing, .

EzriReiki wrote:

Milarepa wrote:
On that cerificate, Hayashi sensei says that the profession in question is 'Dr. Usui's Reiki system of healing'. Note the appreviation 'Dr'. Note also 'Usuis Reiki system' please.

This is a good observation!

The fact that Dr Hayashi referred to Mikao Usui on an officially notarised document as “Dr.” definitely helps dispel the myth that the idea of Mikao Usui being a doctor was a story made up by Takata.


It really saddens me that while so many people claim that Takata “made up stories”, i.e lied, the real “made up stories” seem to be ones ABOUT Takata

Why do people feel the need to dishonour her?


EZRI

To be honest, some 'originality' styles could only exist if both Takata sensei & Usui Shiki Ryoho were completely discredited. It's so widespread now that folks don't know what Usui Shiki Ryoho actually is, they'll seemingly argue that anything bundled together alongside a Reiki attunement is a style called 'Usui Shiki Ryoho'. and Takata sensei, such things as her teachings weren't consisent are virally marketed on the internet. I was told from someone with good authority, that the differences in her teachings are only very slight, for instance.

Inneundo & name calling, such as being a 'pathological liar' i've saw on forums when refering to Takata sensei. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but it's highly dishonourable to speak poorly bout someone in your lineage particularly if you havn't even bothered to go check the facts. And this is what happens, some speak bad about her, and others just assume it's true. When really, spiritual seekers should be able to think for themselves. There's also the subject of the 10k fee for Master level. I've read on forums Takata sensei was only in it for the money. what folks don't realise is that it wasn't uncommon to pay a huge fee in Japan for such things, and also, Takata sensei actually worked every day in a clinic for a year for this skill. How many of us would regard Reiki as so special, that we'd also show such commitment? Even some Master students of Takata sensei went to great lengths also!

Warmest wishes
Wayne

Edit: Ezri, i was gonna ask are you Alliance trained, cause many Usui Shiki Ryoho who go online have been exposed to the above, so have different views on Taakata sensei than you & I. Then i realised that if you were you'd prob call her Mrs. Takata? Are you independant practitioner like myself? Did you wait 5 years before going for level 3, or did your teacher's requirements wish this?

EzriReiki wrote:It really saddens me that while so many people claim that Takata “made up stories”, i.e lied, the real “made up stories” seem to be ones ABOUT Takata

Why do people feel the need to dishonour her?

IMHO, much of it results from politics, as Wayne suggested. But part of it results from inability to confirm parts of the stories, such as Usui's stints at Doshisha University and the University of Chicago.

But at least in reiki politics, there doesn't seem to be the sort of "back off or I'll come over and physically hurt you" sort of challenge that can be seen in some varieties of martial art politics. Reiki doesn't feature closing schools by challenge, as used to happen in martial arts.

There doesn't even seem to be any "back off or I'll heal you" sort of challenge in reiki disputes.

Instead, it seems that there's usually just keyboard bravado:
"Your statement about reiki is wrong."
"Is not."
"Is too."
"Text X says . . . ."
"You're misreading Text X."
"Am not."
"Are too."

Bruce

hehe! I can just see it now..

Instead of "Back off or i'll kick the crap outta you!" , we get "back off or i'll heal the crap outta you!"

Bruce wrote:
Instead, it seems that there's usually just keyboard bravado:
"Your statement about reiki is wrong."
"Is not."
"Is too."
"Text X says . . . ."
"You're misreading Text X."
"Am not."
"Are too."

I bet you wouldn't see it that way if you would stop paying attention to what you read.

Buck wrote:

Bruce wrote:
Instead, it seems that there's usually just keyboard bravado:
"Your statement about reiki is wrong."
"Is not."
"Is too."
"Text X says . . . ."
"You're misreading Text X."
"Am not."
"Are too."

I bet you wouldn't see it that way if you would stop paying attention to what you read.

Hi, Buck,

That just might be the "secret" to message board harmony; heh, heh.

Bruce

Milarepa wrote:
Warmest wishes
Wayne

Edit: Ezri, i was gonna ask are you Alliance trained, cause many Usui Shiki Ryoho who go online have been exposed to the above, so have different views on Taakata sensei than you & I. Then i realised that if you were you'd prob call her Mrs. Takata? Are you independant practitioner like myself? Did you wait 5 years before going for level 3, or did your teacher's requirements wish this?

Hello Wayne

sorry, i did not see this before

My earliest 'connection' was via the Reiki Association, not the Alliance, and the time I waited before doing the master level was not an imposed requirement. My focus was and is on being a treatment-giver, not a teacher, I only did the master level because a particular opportunity opened up. Curiosity also played its part


EZRI

Interesting discussion. But I'm not sure it actually matters to be honest.

Hi Andy,
Can't speak for anyone else, but it matters to me cause of the respect for my lineage and it's not cool the way unwarranted things continually be said bout Takata sensei, .

Warmest wishes
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:Hi Andy,
Can't speak for anyone else, but it matters to me cause of the respect for my lineage and it's not cool the way unwarranted things continually be said bout Takata sensei, .

Warmest wishes
Wayne

I agree on at least that... that Takata has been getting a bum rap. Even if she did manufacture information, I prefer to think of them as teaching parables based around the environment in the late 30's on into the 50's in regards to things Japanese.

The use of the abbreviation Dr. in use by Hayashi when refering to Usui in the documents proclaiming Takata a Reiki Teacher may have been part of the "teaching parable."

But whether its a parable or true, the fact that we cannot prove or disprove most of the information on either side of the argument leads me to feel I have much better things to do with my Reiki practice than worry about it.

I do respect your point of view though.

Thaak wrote:
The use of the abbreviation Dr. in use by Hayashi when refering to Usui in the documents proclaiming Takata a Reiki Teacher may have been part of the "teaching parable."

I might be misunderstanding, if so I apologise.
Are you suggesting, if the information about Mikao Usui being a Doctor of some type was only a "teaching parable", then Dr Hayashi was party to the deception ?

He made a witnessed declaration before a Notary Public in which he referred to Mikao Usui as "Dr."

EZRI

EzriReiki wrote:

Thaak wrote:
The use of the abbreviation Dr. in use by Hayashi when refering to Usui in the documents proclaiming Takata a Reiki Teacher may have been part of the "teaching parable."

I might be misunderstanding, if so I apologise.
Are you suggesting, if the information about Mikao Usui being a Doctor of some type was only a "teaching parable", then Dr Hayashi was party to the deception ?

He made a witnessed declaration before a Notary Public in which he referred to Mikao Usui as "Dr."

EZRI

Most accounts that I read, indicate that Hyashi helped Takata with the parables.

It is also possible, that at some point Usui did earn an honorary doctorate from an institution thus earning the title Dr.

It is also possible that the Gakki considered Usui a Dr., thus the term Dr. was used by Hayashi.

I don't know what the legal culture in 1920's and 30's Japan was as regards use and issuance of titles such as Dr. or Esquire, but I would find it believable that if a renowned institution in Japan (such as a Martial Arts institution or a Healing Center) wanted to declare their leader to have a particular title, that title was allowed to be used and treated as the honor it deserves.

Of course, all this is blind speculation.

Thaak wrote:

But whether its a parable or true, the fact that we cannot prove or disprove most of the information on either side of the argument leads me to feel I have much better things to do with my Reiki practice than worry about it.

Well thanks for the contribution of joining in the chat to say the discussion doesn't matter, and that you've better things to do, hehe.

If you wouldn't have posted in the first place, you'd have saved even more Reiki practice for the 'worthwhile' things!

Maybe a suggestion is don't interact in topics that do'nt interest you, but focus on ones that do, and you enjoy? better chance of you generating those great spiritual gems you give us!

It's been a little while since you shared youre insights, i know i miss them, .

Warmest wishes
Wayne