Before Dr Usui created the Reiki system
what was available for self healing.

From my perspective their was always
hands on healing. We did not have a
name for it. It appears to me that we
have used our hands to sooth newborns
the injuried and to comfort those in
distress. For babies we have used a
combination of holding and tapping at
the same time.

What makes Dr Usui's system different
from the ancient natural hands on used
since time began?

chi_solas wrote:Before Dr Usui created the Reiki system
what was available for self healing.

Spiritual healing has been in Tibet for ages, for example. Are you looking specific paths/arts?

chi_solas wrote:
What makes Dr Usui's system different
from the ancient natural hands on used
since time began?

Nothing, and everything, .

The way of passing on the spiritual empowerments has came from Buddhism, and maybe Hinduism before that (?). There's much to show influences on Esoteric Buddhism, and it's not uncommon for abilities to be 'transferred' via initiations.

What, imo makes Usui Reiki primarily unique, is it's widespread popurlarity. It's kinda mind-blowing out of all ways, one way has become so widespread.

Though what makes it different from ancient natural hands on? That depends on what's meant by the term. Placing our hands on someone, and running energy into them, isn't what goes on in the process of Reiki. Both in application & technique. There's also the possiblity of using personal energy. For instance, before folks in Qigong can learn to heal others, they gotta become very proficient at gathering chi, and storing/using it themselves. Else there's a very grave risk of depleting their own lifeforce, and causing illness or death. there's much more going on in all these things than simply laying hands, . It's quite complex.

Take care
Wayne

SKHM was used by the Mayans and Egyptians. Ra Sheeba was used by the Egyptians. I hypothesize that buddhism has carried out reiki practice since before usui

When I studied this subject, I delineated three distinct forms of healing: natural or spiritual healing, which is possessed by healers (some say we all have this ability: I rather doubt that), or can be taught: faith healing, in which the abilities of a deity are invoked to heal: and healing passed on by attunement such as Reiki, Seichem etc.

Spiritual healing is as old as humanity itself..... the difference for me between usui's system and other ancient forms of healing that many of us are aware of, is the way in which it can be awakened in the individual .....we are ALL innately spiritual it is our Divine inheritance....our Soul seed...and having that Divine seed within us means that we are all capable of connecting with that energy for healing, all of us no exception.....

I suspect that many other forms very similar to usui's existed long before Usui also.... there is much great spiritual knowledge that has been lost as a consequence of man's 'religious growth'....! HA!

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:there is much great spiritual knowledge that has been lost as a consequence of man's 'religious growth'....! HA!

It's spiritual knowledge from religion that has enabled us to pass on the Reiki experience, for instance.

hai,

In india our saints were using healing system thousand years back for their spiritual growth and well wishes for mankind but different name oursaint have given the name kundali awaken and once some body awaken the kundalee they start to healing to others and after kundalee awaken there is more stages where they got sidhi, magical power and after this sidhi their more stages and endless......

But only good thing which Dr. Usui done to open for all or spread for all... this technic and show the natural path.

all near by country to india was a part of india long long year back and indian saint freely move to one place to other for well wishes to mankind and spread this healing few people and mahatama Budh is also one of them who learned.

But good part Dr Usui done to spread it for all and that is great acheievment of this saint.

i knew my grandpapa he was born around 1890 and he had knowledge all about this and i saw him when he practised at home but i was very young around five year he died at the age of 90 still i using his techinic and way which i saw and that is working wonderfull......

So i feeling healing as old as mankind.

Thanks and regards
vj

Milarepa wrote:

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:there is much great spiritual knowledge that has been lost as a consequence of man's 'religious growth'....! HA!

It's spiritual knowledge from religion that has enabled us to pass on the Reiki experience, for instance.

So spiritual knowledge from religion has enabled us to pass on the Reiki experience....ok.

It would seem to me that the source religions, if you want to call them that, have their roots in shamanic based, spiritual practices. I was surprised to read how close the association was between Shinto and Buddhism in Japan for a period of time, my memory fails me, but I believe the state split the two during the 1800`s if I`m not mistaken...

So for me the reality of the situation comes down to man`s initial discovery of spirit and his/her connection to it. Developing a personal limited understanding of the universe over thousands of years, practicing shamanism in various forms around the planet, and then along comes religion, it adopts some of the shamanic practices and attitudes, and then in some cases, as the religion evolved, it returned to it`s roots and attacked the shamanic foundations from which it was born...now that`s evolution for you...




RJ

Reikijim wrote:

So spiritual knowledge from religion has enabled us to pass on the Reiki experience....ok.

Yeah, the initiations are based on spiritual empowerments in Esoteric Buddhism.

Reikijim wrote:
It would seem to me that the source religions, if you want to call them that, have their roots in shamanic based, spiritual practices. I was surprised to read how close the association was between Shinto and Buddhism in Japan for a period of time, my memory fails me, but I believe the state split the two during the 1800`s if I`m not mistaken...

Sure, Shamanic practices have been traced back to stone age cave paintings, for instance. It's not surprising things can be traced to the general term.

Possibly interestingly, there's a few scholars who feel that most of the current knowledge today, has roots in the Indian sub-continent area. Buddhism came from Hinduism. My own Grandmaster is reviving the ancient martial arts from the indian sub-continent, which actually pre-date Shaolin (which many assume are martial arts forerunners). Sanskrit in one of two living holy languages. And in the Vedas (which are dated maybe up to 5000 years ago), there are curious tales of machines that can travel through the air, and that's just one example.

Reikijim wrote:
So for me the reality of the situation comes down to man`s initial discovery of spirit and his/her connection to it. Developing a personal limited understanding of the universe over thousands of years, practicing shamanism in various forms around the planet, and then along comes religion, it adopts some of the shamanic practices and attitudes, and then in some cases, as the religion evolved, it returned to it`s roots and attacked the shamanic foundations from which it was born...now that`s evolution for you...

The curious thing also, is that shamanic practices largely are similar worldwide, yet do express it individually. Much like religion. Shamanic practices didn't become mainstream, maybe good, maybe not. Good for the shamanic paths. Though good for humanity, they never became mainstream? When spiritual paths become mainstream, the chances of it being corrupted for selfish interests are greatly increased. We see this in some aspects of some religions, yet as this has safe-guarded some shamanic ways it's left humanity largely blind to it. Although, we always do tend to remember the bad things, studies of humans have shown that.

There's evidence that prehistoric humans (and possibly more modern) were involved with ritual cannibalism, that would undoubtedly come under the banner of 'shamanism'. It's a quite broad term, and if it was socially acceptable then, of course the shaman would have been involved in the ritual. The thing is, when the word 'shamanism' is used today, there's an image of some things associated with it. this comes from books, or folks teaching 'classes', maybe after a few trips to the amazon (or amazon.com hehe) or something, which doesn't make a person qualified. Well, that's what my Shaman Elder says anyhow, hehe.

Take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:

Reikijim wrote:

So spiritual knowledge from religion has enabled us to pass on the Reiki experience....ok.

Yeah, the initiations are based on spiritual empowerments in Esoteric Buddhism.

Yeah I remember reading this a few months ago...

The more I look at Buddhism seriously, the more i`m inclined to think that Buddhism looks less like a religion at times, and more like a guide to experiencing the nature of the universe and our place in it. Without reading a bizzillion sutras, the practices alone seem to be tolerant of an individual interpretation.

my thoughts are akin to yours Jim.....I do not see Buddhism as a religion..more of a spiritual philosophy fo discovering oneself.....

to get back to shamanism.....if any religion has demonised it, it has been christianity...those christian missionaries, who went global in order to 'save' folk.....actually ripped the souls outta people and taught them that their knowledge and practices were 'evil and sinful'.....

vijaybali wrote:hai,

In india our saints were using healing system thousand years back for their spiritual growth and well wishes for mankind but different name oursaint have given the name kundali awaken and once some body awaken the kundalee they start to healing to others and after kundalee awaken there is more stages where they got sidhi, magical power and after this sidhi their more stages and endless......

But only good thing which Dr. Usui done to open for all or spread for all... this technic and show the natural path.

all near by country to india was a part of india long long year back and indian saint freely move to one place to other for well wishes to mankind and spread this healing few people and mahatama Budh is also one of them who learned.

But good part Dr Usui done to spread it for all and that is great acheievment of this saint.

i knew my grandpapa he was born around 1890 and he had knowledge all about this and i saw him when he practised at home but i was very young around five year he died at the age of 90 still i using his techinic and way which i saw and that is working wonderfull......

So i feeling healing as old as mankind.

Thanks and regards
vj

Imagine if your grandpa were around today , what a never ending fountain of spiritual knowledge and wisdom he would be

I read a wonderful book called Ropes to God - discovering the african bushman spiritual universe.....in it it talks about certain practices which stimulate the kundalini to rise.......creating a ladder to heaven and to the ancestors...just as in ancient Indian cultures.....the same spiritual energies that reside in the human being were being stimulated for the same purposes, to develop the siddhi powers....., clairvoyance, telepathy, healing, mediumship etc..... the same work has been going on for thousands of years....just given different names.....


there are some wonderful publications from the Ringing Rocks Foundation for those interested....

Reikijim wrote:

The more I look at Buddhism seriously, the more i`m inclined to think that Buddhism looks less like a religion at times, and more like a guide to experiencing the nature of the universe and our place in it.

your quote is exactly what the word and concept of religion means bro, .

Reikijim wrote:
Without reading a bizzillion sutras, the practices alone seem to be tolerant of an individual interpretation.

Although reading sutras is spiritual practice itself, i know what you mean. This is my approach to most religions as well. I study a bit of christianity, particularly the early stuff, and quite like the esoteric, mystic stuff. Do some buddhist practices, like mala work and Kuji-in. Do vedic stuff, as in Hatha Yoga. and even though i'm a muslim convert, it hasn't stopped me doing a bit of Kabbalah, hehe. I guess this is why i'm so tolerant, and appreciative for all religions. I use a lot of their varied wisdom, i gotta give respect for that, as i know you do also, .

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:my thoughts are akin to yours Jim.....I do not see Buddhism as a religion..more of a spiritual philosophy fo discovering oneself.....

Sharon, this is what all religions are. Ask anyone properly involved in any religion, they'll say this. And as it's the them of this chat, it's what esoteric christianity is about. a person just needs to look at the practices & teachings from a different perspective.

Shakti ~ Rising wrote:
to get back to shamanism.....if any religion has demonised it, it has been christianity...those christian missionaries, who went global in order to 'save' folk.....actually ripped the souls outta people and taught them that their knowledge and practices were 'evil and sinful'.....

For sure, there's been many misguided folks. Ripping the souls out of people is pretty strong way to put it. What's made you say this?

If we can look past our judgments, irrespective of whether they're right, we might enrich ourselves spiritually. I know for me, when i saw my own judgements on religion as an opportunity for personal spiritual work, it really has enriched my life.

It's interesting about you saying christianity demonised it. Christianity (as most know it) is actually an amalgamation of pre-AD300 christianity, and paganism. And Paganism, is the european equivalent of Shamanism, in all but name, some have suggested. So, christianity as we know it, is a mix of shamansim itself. It still doesn't take anything away from it being a perfect path for some, .

With our chats' i've been kinda trying to show that no matter what folks claim to do in religions name, that it's not the religion that is to blame for the actions. There's loads more examples to show this, but here's a really curious one, tha ti think is a really important one...

We all know the things that were done in the name of christianity, though this is only in the west. And we got to look at the culture of those times, and ask, does the regions/societies values have anything to do with it all? If we look to the East, as far as China, we can see that Christianity was there around AD700, and was actually welcomed and integrated into China quite comfortably. So much so that when China's ruler decided to eradicate all outside religions, Christianity went underground and flourished for at least another 700 years! Marco Polo, a devout catholic, said (in 1400 approx) that many 100's of thousands of christians are practicing in china in secret. Scholars think he underestimated deliberately, since he was a devout catholic, which the chinese christians weren't. The big question is, how could christianity be welcomed so peacefully in china, for so long, and flourish underground, when in the west there were those terrible tales. Something is surely going on besides the religion. If we think about what, we might have an insight into what, and more importantly, whom, is to blame for western civilizations darkest deeds, .


Take care
Wayne

Reikijim wrote:

The more I look at Buddhism seriously, the more i`m inclined to think that Buddhism looks less like a religion at times, and more like a guide to experiencing the nature of the universe and our place in it. Without reading a bizzillion sutras, the practices alone seem to be tolerant of an individual interpretation.

There is the wisdom-teaching aspect of Buddhism, which I think we in the West have really latched onto, because so much of it feels like a practical handbook for living consciously. It's less about faith than a philosophical and experiental understanding. However, in many countries where Buddhism is practiced widely, it functions more as a religion with its own dogma and rituals. For example, in Thailand and other countries where Theravada Buddhism is practiced, there is greater emphasis on "merit-making" (doing good actions in the hopes of improving karma for oneself or others.) There is also the worship of deities that have derived from the underlying indigenous cultural beliefs. The monks study the sutras, but the laypeople typically worship the Buddha. I know that's a great simplification, but it's not unusual to see that differentiation especially when a religion has been syncretized into another culture, as Buddhism has done over the centuries.

Hi Wayne,

Milarepa wrote:
your quote is exactly what the word and concept of religion means bro, .

I understand... Could it be possible, that some religions are easier to twist or corrupt, than others? Probably not...The religions I know of, all present a wonderful ideology, a blueprint of respect and peace, yet a couple of these religions seem to be historically tied to considerable bloodshed.

It would seem that Buddhists have a wonderful way of staying out of trouble

Milarepa wrote:
If we can look past our judgments, irrespective of whether they're right, we might enrich ourselves spiritually. I know for me, when i saw my own judgements on religion as an opportunity for personal spiritual work, it really has enriched my life.

Yeah man this makes total sense...in my opinion anyways.



RJ