Milarepa wrote:This is all good stuff, . What we're maybe not realising (just going by all our comments) is that our own experiences & understandings of religion, is only valid for us.

There's no proper, right or ultimate way to experience God. Just like there's no proper, right or ultimate way to prepare a potato. What forms our opinions is the media machine to a large extent, and this revels in bringing the bad details from around the world. Before long, we become brainwashed & conditioned, that it's in fact these structured religious paths that are doing these things. There's much hope, love & support religions bring. I'll give an example, well a few...

According to Islam, as well as helping others, it's a muslims duty to help another muslim in need. When i was a practicing muslim i was so thankful for that. I got stranded in england, and muslims helped bring me back to Ireland. They gave me two houses to for myself to live in. Also, down in dublin, i was sad one time and took an overdose. Two muslim doctors went to the cashpoint and got me loads of cash, to get home on christmas eve. The Salvation Army have also helped me lots of times before, with food when i was starving, as well as preists & convents. There's much love, assitance, cameraderie & freindship in religions. If God isn't a sign of that, i don't know what is. Then when we look to Reiki forums, were alrgely folks are on independant spiritual paths. There's very, very few will help another person, when we look at the sunday Reiki shares, of requests for healing, and i include myself in that of course. Makes a person think...

There is, without a doubt, countless folks whom have an intensely divine experience through religion. There's no heirarchy in spiritual paths, and no difference between a christian or a 'spiritual person'. If both are true to what they wish, both are spiritual people. And both are also free, experiencing God, in a way that suits them, cause they choose to expereince it that way.

Not following a religion, and sticking to personal spirituality doesn't make one anymore evolved than a buddhist or Muslim. It's the thought, word & deed that counts, not the platform used to develop it, .

Point for you Jim, very good post, and you're pushed for time also, so it's more valuable!

Take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:for sure, the most valid & powerful way a person can speak is through personal expereince . My examples show people who's religion has made them help others beyond the normal way a human does. Although you'll notice i did speak of 'rules' within Islam, and Buddhism. The 'highest' person ever helped me was a Catholic Bishop.

I'm kinda curious what rules the church heirarchy made that you dislike, for your above comment? We all take or leave certain rules. For instance in Islam, in Ramadan, i bet most of us here wouldn't care for that month fast. Yet fasting has long been known to be a very important aspect of spirituality. Usui sensei expereinced Reiki through it, for instance. Different strokes for different folks. Yet i've encountered so much love & assistance for these folks who follow spiritual rules, something must be working.

Take care
Wayne

chi_solas wrote:

Some rules are ancient.

chi_solas wrote:
Like Sharon mentioned many
folks have no choice about the religion they join
it comes with their family culture. By the time I
was old enough to a make a decision I was already
indoctrinated. When you make/want tomove away it can
be difficult.

chi_solas wrote:
Religions imo control your personal
thinking with their rules/regulations. I was 6 years
old when I made my first communion and 7 when I made
my confirmation which also meant taking a pledge to
have no alochol until the age of 25. I had my first
alcohol drink when I was about 33. I went through the
motionsof Confirmation not quite knowing what being a
soldier of God really was all about. We had the ten
commandments to follow and 7 deadly sins to rhyme off
I would say a little to much for a 7 year old to begin
to comprehend. It's been so long I forget what else.
It should have been a spiritual "growing up." but
I cannot say it was. There were other parts of life
that got entwined and made religion complicated.

chi_solas wrote:
As Jim
said you don't need the middle man. My father always said
you don't need to go to confession to talk to God about
your sins.

chi_solas wrote: You should not have to answer to anyone but yourself and the
divine if you choose to not carry a child to full term.
I believe that's a personal choice same as who you choose
to partner with in life. So much of what others in my
church decided was right or wrong for public viewing you
could not get married at the main altar or wear white if you
were with child before marriage. The list goes on as the
rules are embedded in stone and carved into your mind. They
were always in your face saving your soul. They have so much
wealth and pagentry like royality parading it and making so
much money bringing/engaging tourist into their domain to show
off and many of their members don't have a pot to go in.