I've just picked up my copy of the Reiki Sourebook and it fell open at this quote:

"Of the 12 living students of Mikao Usui only one was taught the mantras and symbols"

Is that the case?

If it is the case, what does it say about Usui's use of the symbols?

The source of where that information has come from, is in dispute, .

There was a living source, whom was taught the symbols. Takata sensei. whom was taught Usui healing method, by a very honourable, principled man. Hayahsi sensei surely wouldn't have said it was Usui sensei's style, unless... It actually was Usui sensei's style.

Takata sensei taught level 1 in Japan in 1976. To folks whom never knew the existence of Reiki.

Meiko Mitsui didn't report finding any Reiki folks.

Arjava Petter said Japan was crying out for Reiki, when he taught there.

My point is, the 'originality' folks are prob traceable back to the level 1 students of Takata sensei.

Milarepa wrote:The source of where that information has come from, is in dispute, .

There was a living source, whom was taught the symbols. Takata sensei. whom was taught Usui healing method, by a very honourable, principled man. Hayahsi sensei surely wouldn't have said it was Usui sensei's style, unless... It actually was Usui sensei's style.

There was also an even more recent living source, Chiyoko Yamaguchi,who was taught the symbols by the same very honourable, principled man, Hayashi sensei, from whom she received Shoden and Okuden training. Many of her family members also received training in the use of symbols.

Chris, the same source that was quoted in the Reiki Source book (Buddhist Nun, Suzuki san, through Chris Marsh) has also said that Usui adapted his teachings depending upon the background of his students, teaching specific meditations for those who were used to meditating (e.g. Tendai buddhists), kotodama chanting for those who were used to chanting (e.g. Shingon buddhists) and the symbols and mantras to those who did not have an extensive background in either meditation or chanting.

I don't think that anyone can say for sure exactly what was taught to whom.

Ai to Hikari
Colin

Colin wrote:

Milarepa wrote:The source of where that information has come from, is in dispute, .

There was a living source, whom was taught the symbols. Takata sensei. whom was taught Usui healing method, by a very honourable, principled man. Hayahsi sensei surely wouldn't have said it was Usui sensei's style, unless... It actually was Usui sensei's style.

There was also an even more recent living source, Chiyoko Yamaguchi,who was taught the symbols by the same very honourable, principled man, Hayashi sensei, from whom she received Shoden and Okuden training. Many of her family members also received training in the use of symbols.

there are many things that don't seem to make sense, in Jikiden. We explored this before, .

Colin wrote:
Chris, the same source that was quoted in the Reiki Source book (Buddhist Nun, Suzuki san, through Chris Marsh) has also said that Usui adapted his teachings depending upon the background of his students, teaching specific meditations for those who were used to meditating (e.g. Tendai buddhists), kotodama chanting for those who were used to chanting (e.g. Shingon buddhists) and the symbols and mantras to those who did not have an extensive background in either meditation or chanting.

Well, if Chris said it, and it's bene printed, it must be true!

You met Suzuki San then? Has anyone? Has even Chris? Stuff Chris says is looked at with a lot of scepticizm.

Well, my own 'originality' Masters master, said Suzuki san exists, that says it all, hehe. Interestingly, and this is a fact, The fraud whom taught me, whom is also widely accepted (as you know), did tell me that Chris has said clearly to him, that he's purposely including Tendai in what he says, since he's Tendai. And not, cause of anything to do with Usui sensei.

I'm fairly sure of something Colin, Takata sensei had no need to lie about anything. She had no competiton, no-one came close.

We got two Japanes styles, and one of them is blatantly telling a lie about the other. that behaviour isn't acceptable, imo. When we got that mentality, everything should be looked at with discernment.

Take care
Wayne

Pandora wrote:"Of the 12 living students of Mikao Usui only one was taught the mantras and symbols"....
If it is the case, what does it say about Usui's use of the symbols?

Perhaps it says that, just as is common in most lineages today, Usui-sensei did not teach the symbols to what we class as 'level 1' students, and that of the 12 people mentioned, only one of them was actually invited to progress to what we class as 'level 2' ...

Extract from the 'Reiki Ryoho Hikkei':

How can I receive the second degree (Okuden)

We will give okuden to enthusiastic shoden students who bring good results, are of good character, and behave properly.

.
.

Milarepa wrote:

We got two Japanes styles, and one of them is blatantly telling a lie about the other. that behaviour isn't acceptable, imo. When we got that mentality, everything should be looked at with discernment.

Take care
Wayne

Well, I'm not going to get dragged into that tired old debate again but suffice it to say that having studied Hawayo Takata's version of Hayashi's teachings and Chiyoko Yamaguchi's version of Hayashi's teachings I don't find that much difference in what is taught! It is mainly a difference of terminology and approach and once you can see behind that there is an awful lot of common ground.

One thing I have certainly never heard is Tadao Yamaguchi putting down Mrs Takata's teaching or claiming that she is lying! It is my understanding from speaking to him about Mrs Takata is that he admires her and is grateful for her spreading Reiki in the world.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, let's focus on the commonalities rather than the perceived differences!

Ai to Hikari
Colin

That quote wasn't about Takata sensei. It was about Tadao & Hayakuten.

It's being put forward that Chris, and what Chiyoko said, are true. I'm showing that there's doubt with Chris, and 50/50 chance Jikiden has told a blantant lie bout Hayakuten. I expected you to automatically know what i'm speaking about, sorry, .

This whole topic has accuracy at it's core. i'm hopeing to suggest that what one claims, isn't always what actually is, .

Colin wrote:

Milarepa wrote:

We got two Japanes styles, and one of them is blatantly telling a lie about the other. that behaviour isn't acceptable, imo. When we got that mentality, everything should be looked at with discernment.

Take care
Wayne

Well, I'm not going to get dragged into that tired old debate again but suffice it to say that having studied Hawayo Takata's version of Hayashi's teachings and Chiyoko Yamaguchi's version of Hayashi's teachings I don't find that much difference in what is taught! It is mainly a difference of terminology and approach and once you can see behind that there is an awful lot of common ground.

One thing I have certainly never heard is Tadao Yamaguchi putting down Mrs Takata's teaching or claiming that she is lying! It is my understanding from speaking to him about Mrs Takata is that he admires her and is grateful for her spreading Reiki in the world.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, let's focus on the commonalities rather than the perceived differences!

Ai to Hikari
Colin

I feel that when I get involved in
who said what and when it happened
and the disputes over who really has
followed Usui's exact teaching, that
the healing energy gets lost in the
debating verbage. It takes away from
the natural healing. I'm sure that
Usui may have changed things as he
developed his healing system, realizing
as we do today that every Reiki session
is different as every clients needs are
different. I focus on having my students
practice, practice that's were the real
learning happens out in the field not the
classroom. If folks want to pursue in depth
the Reiki history I recommend James site.

Thing is Bridget, if folks are using other people as supportive of something that may have occured, others have a right to look a that.

If, some folks see no purpose, or don't like being involved in this kinda subject, then they don't need to be involved in these kinda topics if they don't want to, .

Folks whom are interested in Reiki history, or looking deeply at things within Reiki, are very welcome to post, and create topics. Not suggesting you are saying they shouldn't, btw.

The idea for this forum, was born out of the concept for folks whom are interested in Reiki history, and share a willingness to interact on a deep level on the subject of Reiki. No Reiki subject is taboo here, it's complete comfortability to ask anything, or mention anything.

Having said that, i made the decision to make this forum not as niche, and open it up to all. It's perfectly fine some folks have no taste for this stuff, but for the folks whom are interested in it, as well as reading on James' site, they're more than welcome to talk about this stuff here, .

Take care
Wayne

will we ever know? I view it that Usui taught his students, but each of those will have their own interpretation and slightly different approach and angle. No two people are ever the same, but it would be nice to travel back in time to actually meet Usui and be taught by him...then we would know, but again it would be how we interpret what he taught us

I think it is great that we can explore these questions, for me I would like to practice Reiki as close as possible to the way Usui would have taught it, just because that is my individual desire. I am sure anyone who practices Reiki is working with the best intention, regardless of differences in our practice
Love Light Hugs

Lois wrote:

I think it is great that we can explore these questions, for me I would like to practice Reiki as close as possible to the way Usui would have taught it, just because that is my individual desire. I am sure anyone who practices Reiki is working with the best intention, regardless of differences in our practice
Love Light Hugs

Well, you've got a good teacher, whose a pretty damn good researcher himself! You've got a 'head-start' that way!

too true Wayne..thats why I am still stalking him!!!

chi_solas wrote:
I feel that when I get involved in
who said what and when it happened
and the disputes over who really has
followed Usui's exact teaching, that
the healing energy gets lost in the
debating verbage.
[. . . .]

"Healing energy gets lost" . . . ? As if it can't find its way home?? Isn't that a rather odd idea???

Healing energy is. It doesn't lose its way.

Bruce

Bruce wrote:

chi_solas wrote:
I feel that when I get involved in
who said what and when it happened
and the disputes over who really has
followed Usui's exact teaching, that
the healing energy gets lost in the
debating verbage.
[. . . .]

"Healing energy gets lost" . . . ? As if it can't find its way home?? Isn't that a rather odd idea???

Healing energy is. It doesn't lose its way.

Bruce

Hi Bruce,
there's been a chat on a topic here in which it diverted to Reiki not causing harm. I know you'v heard of an experience where it did. Could you share that please?

http://www.reikilearninglounge.com/reiki-general-f1/attunements-for-young-people-t408.htm .

Take care
Wayne

Hi Bruce,

I believe Bridget may be using 'lost' in the sense of 'forgotten about'

i.e. that our focus becomes distracted from what is ultimately the most important thing: the flow of the 'therapeutic spiritual influence' that is Reiki itself?

Bruce wrote:

chi_solas wrote:
I feel that when I get involved in
who said what and when it happened
and the disputes over who really has
followed Usui's exact teaching, that
the healing energy gets lost in the
debating verbage.
[. . . .]

"Healing energy gets lost" . . . ? As if it can't find its way home?? Isn't that a rather odd idea???

Healing energy is. It doesn't lose its way.

Bruce