How come, in level 1 in Usui Shiki Ryoho, folks are initiated with symbols, if, as some claim, the symbols are merely tools. like 'training wheels'?

Following this line of thought, symbols are no use in level 1, so what's the point in initiating me with them!

Unless....

Two things here:

1. There is a school of thought which says that Usui invented the symbols to help those of us less spiritually developed to access the powers (frequencies...) represented by the symbols.

We also don't really know whether the symbols were part of Usui's original attunements.

Reading Maureen Kelly's "Reiki and the Healing Buddha" gives an idea of Buddhist initations in the context of Reiki. I haven't read it for a bit so can't quote from it at the moment!

2. The point of using symbols during the initiations is to enable us to access the power of the symbols.

Pandora wrote:

We also don't really know whether the symbols were part of Usui's original attunements.

Original or not, , Usui sensei is the one most likely to have introduced them. We gotta remember, two are actually phrases. Whom would have the knowledge, and more importantly, the ability, to empower simple words, a phrase, with such power? Immediately, the prime candidate is th eperson with whom this fantastic thing began, Usui Sensei.

Pandora wrote:
Reading Maureen Kelly's "Reiki and the Healing Buddha" gives an idea of Buddhist initations in the context of Reiki. I haven't read it for a bit so can't quote from it at the moment!

I havn't read that book. Will actually search for it today though, .

Pandora wrote:
2. The point of using symbols during the initiations is to enable us to access the power of the symbols.

Yes, . This is true. So, we can say then, that at level 1, without the symbols, we wouldn't be able to access the 'power fo the symbols'. This is true, cause in Reiju, there needs to be a continuous Reiju, for the practitioner to expereince Reiki. With the symbols in a Denju initiation, this isn't the case.

The question is then, how come, in level 1, it's so important we place symbols in us, since we don't actually consciously draw them, or know of them in level 1?


surely the symbols couldn't work without us consciously drawing them, or thinking of them?

Cause..if they did work sub-consciously, in level 1, this would show, that irrespective of what a practitioner may think of the way they've 'progressed' later in Reiki, in fact, it's never been a case they no longer needed the symbols..

Cause they've been using them sub-consciously since day 1, level 1!

Since that's a minority opinion, it must be wrong, hehe.

(end parts general comments Chris, not directed at you, ).

take care
Wayne

Hi Wayne,

The question for me is whether the level 1 symbols are there to facilitate the attunement transformation through the master, or remain to imbue Reiki to the student.

Personally, I can't imagine symbols floating around in my energy body for too long without positive affirmation from myself.

John

Well bless me barnacles mate! How you doing stranger! Good to see you back buddy!

JohnC wrote:Hi Wayne,

The question for me is whether the level 1 symbols are there to facilitate the attunement transformation through the master, or remain to imbue Reiki to the student.

Yeah, this is true. Why, do they transmit though? What is the actual role of the symbols? They're placed in us in level 1 for a reason, they do something. What work is it they do? And, how do they do that work? All rhetorical, .

JohnC wrote:
Personally, I can't imagine symbols floating around in my energy body for too long without positive affirmation from myself.

You've hit the nail on the head, . 'Positive affirmation'. such as 'Reiki on', etc? The symbols become active once we experience Reiki. They're with us forever.

Take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:Well bless me barnacles mate! How you doing stranger! Good to see you back buddy!

Thanks Wayne - [I] never really went away you know.

Milarepa wrote:
You've hit the nail on the head, . 'Positive affirmation'. such as 'Reiki on', etc? The symbols become active once we experience Reiki. They're with us forever.

Equally I could say that the "Reiki energy" rather than the "symbols" become active once our thoughts trigger Reiki.

For me the relationship between the energy and the symbols becomes even more confusing when you consider than many people have an innate ability to heal outside of the Reiki paradigm.

So, if we stop using symbols, is it possible that we have stopped using Reiki, and fallen back on something else?

Does anyone claim to practice Reiki without symbols and also refuse to acknowledge the importance of the symbols in their journey - even if the symbols are merely signposts, rather than avatars.


John

In other healing systems like prayer
can you say a rosary without the beads
would the prayers be less valuable if
you did not have the beads to focus on
the prayer.

I could not imagine doing an attunement
without the focus of the symbols.

JohnC wrote:

Milarepa wrote:
You've hit the nail on the head, . 'Positive affirmation'. such as 'Reiki on', etc? The symbols become active once we experience Reiki. They're with us forever.

Equally I could say that the "Reiki energy" rather than the "symbols" become active once our thoughts trigger Reiki.

they're the same, . not different, or seperate. bit of a coincidence that 'DKM' hit Usui sensei in the forehead, and we are empowered to use DKM. And we also have the forehead as prominence in initiations. We emulate in ways what happened with Usui sensei.

JohnC wrote:
For me the relationship between the energy and the symbols becomes even more confusing when you consider than many people have an innate ability to heal outside of the Reiki paradigm.

all healing isn't expereincing Reiki. You & I know quantum touch. We don't access ULFE in quantum touch, the way we expereince things in Reiki. totally different processes, and most do say they feel quite different. So, at what point is something different?

What's experienced in Reiki is very specific. We experience it because we have been empowered by another. This is our lineage, and goes right back to the first person whom empowered it all, Usui sensei. QT is very basic Qigong techniques almost. If say, QT was teh same as Reiki, do we not think that Usui sensei would have known that? Of course he would have. Yet, he obviously was interested in something else. Why was he interested in passing on the Reiki expereince when it's obvious breathing techniques access ULFE? Because Reiki is something else, .

JohnC wrote:
So, if we stop using symbols, is it possible that we have stopped using Reiki, and fallen back on something else?

A person may claim to not need or use the symbols. With respect to everyone, from what i can see, the folks whom are claiming that are the same folks whom don't care to study the core concepts of Reiki. That's their choice, it hardly makes the opinion qualified though. I'm not trying to be patronising to anyone, but it's silly to dismiss something when the folks dismissing it simply don't know the existience of what is being dismissed. It's the earth is flat scenario, .

The symbols never leave us. Why would they? It's the symbols, and the teachers empowerment that starts this. We then empower a student from level 1, with the symbols. The symbols become activated once we decide to experience Reiki. If they work sub-consciously post level 1 initiation, of course they can continue to work sub-consciously.

JohnC wrote:
Does anyone claim to practice Reiki without symbols and also refuse to acknowledge the importance of the symbols in their journey - even if the symbols are merely signposts, rather than avatars.

I'd like to chat with someone whom did claim it, just to have a proper debate with someone who's claiming to be actually qualified to debate the opposing claim.

folks claim they no longer need symbols, in their Reiki 'progression'. It's just that they assume they're no longer needed, and feel comfortable going with the current accepted norm, of our Reiki peers. Neither of those instances show what's may actually be happening. And, neither does what i say...

that leaves it up to the individual to go find out for themselves, only then, once a person studies the sysmbols, are they qualified to say what they may or may not be. How can one know otherwise? .

Take care
Wayne

just a thought that struck me while reading the thread,
why would the symbols be floating around in my energy? I see the symbols more as having a purpose in a way of utilisation of reiki, just like Wayne points out, and in such a way might not their purpose be achieved during the attunement, and not be floating around waiting to be activated at some point down the line?


oh my , questions questions questions... etc

f

Milarepa wrote:How come, in level 1 in Usui Shiki Ryoho, folks are initiated with symbols, if, as some claim, the symbols are merely tools. like 'training wheels'?

Following this line of thought, symbols are no use in level 1, so what's the point in initiating me with them!

Unless....

I would argue that the symbols are not actually placed in someone. The initiation process includes symbols, but the person is not initiated with symbols so to speak.

This is confusing though, because as the level of the practitioner increases, higher level symbols are typically initiated differently than they were for lower levels. However, I don't believe this confusion proves the opposite of my argument.

As has been said before, the symbols are tools for focus and concentration. The system has created a reiju, which to those who have not moved beyond the symbols yet (truly learned who they are as a person), the symbols are part of the reiju or attunement to help the master focus on what they are actually attuning their student to.

You obviously have meditated on the symbols quite a lot, as you discuss this quite a bit. Rather than trying to meditate on the symbols as though they are some separate entity placed within you from without, try training your focus more on the vibrational frequency of the symbol gives when the focus is made. Then focus on that frequency. Once you taste the frequency, and you can call it to you without visualizing the symbol. The symbol becomes unnecessary.

If the symbol becomes unnecessary to call forward that particular frequency, then why is the symbol more than a tool?

It is separation consciousness, duality (and don't throw that, "stick my hand in a fire...freezer" analogy that doesn't work again at me please) mindedness when considering the symbols, a separate entity, that is giving you the power to do what you can do. If you look at the symbols, indeed the entire system of Reiki, as a tool for energetic manipulation, then things really start to get interesting.

i get your point, and if i do i am in similar thought i guess one could say.

f

fshortt wrote:i get your point, and if i do i am in similar thought i guess one could say.

f

Are you referring to what I just wrote?

yep

sorry about that confusion - i see i didn't refer to your post

Thaak wrote:

I would argue that the symbols are not actually placed in someone. The initiation process includes symbols, but the person is not initiated with symbols so to speak.

They're not? where do you place them?

they aren't initated with symbols? So, how do they use symbols then? If they aren't iniated with symbols, next student you have, why not initiate them using a swastika. If we don't initiate using symbols, surely any symbol will do. Let me know how you get on, hehe.

Thaak wrote:
This is confusing though, because as the level of the practitioner increases, higher level symbols are typically initiated differently than they were for lower levels. However, I don't believe this confusion proves the opposite of my argument.

The reason why the symbol placement is different per initiaion, or at least, should be, is because the reason for the initiation is different, at each level.

Thaak wrote:
As has been said before, the symbols are tools for focus and concentration.

yeah, many do seem to agree to this, without thinking for themselves, .

Thaak wrote:
The system has created a reiju,

No, Hiroshi Doi created a Reiju. Everyone else followed.

Thaak wrote:
which to those who have not moved beyond the symbols yet (truly learned who they are as a person),the symbols are part of the reiju or attunement to help the master focus on what they are actually attuning their student to.

Reiju is initiation without symbols, but yeah, i'd say they are still involved there.

The 'Master' should have no need to focus on what they are doing, imo. By the time someone is a 'Master', they should at least know to be mindfull enough during initiation, that focus is second nature.

Thaak wrote:
You obviously have meditated on the symbols quite a lot, as you discuss this quite a bit.

Maybe becuase little things have been discovered that answer many of my questions. Questions i pose on forums for 3 years, and no-one can answer, .

Thaak wrote:
Rather than trying to meditate on the symbols as though they are some separate entity placed within you from without, try training your focus more on the vibrational frequency of the symbol gives when the focus is made. Then focus on that frequency. Once you taste the frequency, and you can call it to you without visualizing the symbol. The symbol becomes unnecessary.

Andy, really not sounding patronising here Bro, i wanna progress in Reiki, no go back. I was experiencing this after 6 months in Reiki, . It's the first step in the symbols. It's not the only step. there's much more after that. I've moved on somewhat from those days. Is it really thought i've stayed focussed on studying the symbols for 2 years, for no reason, hehe.

I know full well the common accepted views on what's deemed by our peers to be progress in Reiki. Those expereince are 3 1/2 years old now withme now. I've expereinced both sides of the spectrum, and have stuck with this way for two years now. Must surely be a reason, hehe.

I don't mind being very honest in forums, and think it's right to make available info that may be of use to others. It's an ego trip though, for Reiki practitioners to think they have 'progressed' enough spiritually, to not need the symbols. Right here & now, folks reading this are automatically dismissing what i say, they're actually getting irritated, hehe. How come one can justifiably dismiss something out of that, that they've never researched, or attempted to seek? that's the ego working.

Thaak wrote:
If the symbol becomes unnecessary to call forward that particular frequency, then why is the symbol more than a tool?

You're asking me this important question, but you won't look yourself, . I'm gonna indulge here. The symbols aren't just about any 'frequency'...

They are also explaining how the initiations work.

They Explain what Reiki is.

They explain why the symbols are placed where they are.

They explain what Usui sensei thought of the system.

And, most importantly, they are a set of instructions for this spiritual path.

This list in exhausted.

Thaak wrote:
It is separation consciousness, duality (and don't throw that, "stick my hand in a fire...freezer" analogy that doesn't work again at me please)

I won't need to mention it agian, unless you try to imply others are experiencing 'duality consciousness', when, unless you're dead, you experience it yourself every single day, .

Thaak wrote:
mindedness when considering the symbols, a separate entity, that is giving you the power to do what you can do. If you look at the symbols, indeed the entire system of Reiki, as a tool for energetic manipulation, then things really start to get interesting.

have you looked at the entire system of Reik then? I've a couple questions you can help me with if so.

What makes you think, i for one, am saying the symbols are seperate from myself? I say regularly Reiki is our divine spark within. The symbols are placed within. (Big clues there).

It's been mentioned in this forum by another, about this more specificially. And i share a clue every single post also deliberately.


Take care
Wayne