Not quite sure which section of the forum to place this, though as it pertains to teaching I decided on here....
After some pming with Colin with whom I did my Jikiden shoden/okuden training last year in Kyoto with(sorry, but can't really go into details about the workshop as you have to sign a form about that-which is why I was chatting with Colin in the first place about it..)about symbols and techniques and theories in Jikiden. I began to think about how we teach..Recently there have been a couple of discussions on the forum about "purity of teachings and the fusing or combining of styles."
While I have been happy with my various training in reiki(bar the first level I did with someone- so I later re-did it)through my reading, discussing and most importantly practicing and experimentation found some things that I was taught no longer either believable or just plain extraneous..and so have dropped them..
So this raises the question.. Is it more important to be true to your teacher and through extension of this your lineage by keeping it as close as possible to what you were taught? Or is that being too dogmatic, realising that along the way others have changed things anyway and you see yourself attempting to return to the basics and the most "original" style that you possibly can?
I know I chose the latter, without making a big deal about it and is it inevitable anyhow that because of who they are, what they believe,other training and studies, religious and/or spiritual backgrounds and inclinations, their values and preferences that teachers will modify things regardless?(whether conciously or unconciously)..
Which makes one realise that this is obviously why Jikiden is so strict about how things are done, their versions of history, techniques and symbols and about not mixing it with other forms of reiki lest the cat could get out of the bag Takata style.(by this I mean how some of the masters taught by her, and then students of those masters went on to fundamentally alter things and in cases create whole new systems)..
What are people's thoughts on this?..Kevin

HI Kevin,
Interesting post. One question i have.

If, even after your Jikiden training, you decide some things don't 'seem' right and decided to take a few aspects out, but of course still want to teach Reiki, would you continue to call it Jikiden? Setting aside an obvious legal matter.

chuglet wrote:
So this raises the question.. Is it more important to be true to your teacher and through extension of this your lineage by keeping it as close as possible to what you were taught? Or is that being too dogmatic, realising that along the way others have changed things anyway and you see yourself attempting to return to the basics and the most "original" style that you possibly can?

What's important is doing what one thinks is best. Though, we must way up respect for the style in which we are taught, and are deciding to change. I'm prob jumping the gun here, but i feel you'll say that if you change aspects of Jikiden, you won't call it Jikiden you teach. you'd have too much respect for it? This should be true of all styles really. Usui Shiki Ryoho for instance, deserves no less, in fact, maybe more. Honestly, just because it has becomes so blatantly widespread in Usui Shiki Ryoho, does not make it anymore right than if we took out aspects of Jikiden, replacing with Karuna, and still called it Jikiden. IMO, of course, hehe.

chuglet wrote:
Which makes one realise that this is obviously why Jikiden is so strict about how things are done, their versions of history, techniques and symbols and about not mixing it with other forms of reiki lest the cat could get out of the bag Takata style.(by this I mean how some of the masters taught by her, and then students of those masters went on to fundamentally alter things and in cases create whole new systems)..

I dunno if that's Jikiden's thinking or not. It's not that effectual though. I had an Okuden Jikiden practitioner allude, to my face, that Jikiden taught Chakras. When i said i find that hard to beleive, he said, 'The Yamaguchi family change things'. If a practitioner could come of with that, i doubt they'd not divulge Jikidens' teachings if pressed. What's more effective is choosing carefully the students. It's probably one of the reasons why Usui sensei taught so few in the latter levels.

Take care
Wayne

Hi Wayne,
Even though this stems from a discussion I had with Colin about Jikiden, it doesn't really apply to Jikiden yet.. For at Okuden level I can't teach it anyway..Plus you have to repeat Shoden/Okuden before you can complete Shihan kaku which allows you to teach Shoden level..
In answer to your question about that, no I wouldn't change it..and even though I liked my training in Jikiden and you never know really where your reiki journey will take you- I don't know that I will end up teaching it..
They teach chakras in Jikiden? They certainly do not! He was speaking out his kyber pass "The yamaguchi family changes things." Well, the Yamaguchi family IS Jikiden..so who changes things? I doubt the Jikiden UK group would be too pleased to hear about the introduction of unsanctioned teachings emerging..

And you are dead right when you said it comes down to doing what one thinks is best..
Being more specific about a few of the things I was alluding to in my first post:
The backwards CKR to be used in the southern hemisphere, the removal of belts,watches and jewelry(removing big dangly earrings isn't a bad idea in case you accidentally got hooked or caught on them-only for that reason though) as they will conduct the reiki- maybe somehow diminishing the effectiveness of the treatment..
And in one style of reiki I learned- the use of NLP techniques(which I am not a big fan of and see no need for them in reiki, especially with such wonderful things as Byosen and reiji-ho at our disposal)...

chuglet wrote:
In answer to your question about that, no I wouldn't change it..

Jikiden itself, or the name 'Jikiden' (if you changed aspects)?

chuglet wrote:
They teach chakras in Jikiden? They certainly do not! He was speaking out his kyber pass "The yamaguchi family changes things." Well, the Yamaguchi family IS Jikiden..so who changes things? I doubt the Jikiden UK group would be too pleased to hear about the introduction of unsanctioned teachings emerging..

Considering my 'teacher' then, that was the tip of the iceberg, hehe.

chuglet wrote:
Being more specific about a few of the things I was alluding to in my first post:
The backwards CKR to be used in the southern hemisphere,

For god's sake, hehe. What, was that to stop the water in Austrailia going the 'wrong' way, hehe.

chuglet wrote:
the removal of belts,watches and jewelry(removing big dangly earrings isn't a bad idea in case you accidentally got hooked or caught on them-only for that reason though) as they will conduct the reiki- maybe somehow diminishing the effectiveness of the treatment..

It's interesting you said that. In Quantum Touch, we're taught to remove belts. As leather seems to just 'soak' up ULE. Hypothesising because it is dead animal. Having said that, i personally diferentiate between what's expereinced in Reiki, and others therapies, Reiki being 'the highest i know of' to borrow a well known little ladies phrase, hehe.

chuglet wrote:
And in one style of reiki I learned- the use of NLP techniques(which I am not a big fan of and see no need for them in reiki, especially with such wonderful things as Byosen and reiji-ho at our disposal)...

You know my opinion on that mate, it's cool if one wants to do that, and even teach that, and folks want to learn it. Though, in Yoga for instance, we see new styles arising all the time, but they aren't all Inyengar, in fact, there only is one Iyengar style.

Take care
Wayne

I've had more thoughts on this.

Once when I went to give a fellow healer Reiki through her feet, she said "Don't you want me to take my shoes off? They're leather - dead matter, you know" and my reply was that Reiki went where it was meant to go and leather was not a barrier. If she felt it was a barrier, then Reiki was going through my eyes, my aura... and she'd get it anyway.

On the topic of staying true to what you're taught, it came to me last night (after meditating with a piece of Preseli bluestone) that my Reiki teacher taught using Diane Stein's Essential Reiki as his set text, and also brought in elements of Barbara Ann Brennan's work. I wonder what I should be calling the Reiki I practice? As far as I know Diane Stein hasn't trademarked her Reiki - she seems to be very much against that.
What I am doing is staying true to the principles I've been taught, even though they're not the principles other people have been taught.

Pandora wrote:

As far as I know Diane Stein hasn't trademarked her Reiki - she seems to be very much against that.

Diane only teaches females Reiki now also, at least, that's the way it was last year. I asked her why, but she never replied.

Take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:

Pandora wrote:

As far as I know Diane Stein hasn't trademarked her Reiki - she seems to be very much against that.

Diane only teaches females Reiki now also, at least, that's the way it was last year. I asked her why, but she never replied.

Take care
Wayne

I think it's part of her calling to serve the Goddess and empower women. She has also had some bad experiences teaching men Reiki - not the obvious way, it seems that all the men who've approached her have been the ones who wanted to make money out of Reiki rather than follow a spiritual path.

Pandora wrote:

I think it's part of her calling to serve the Goddess and empower women.

Yeah i assumed that. Even though 'Goddess' is a female diety, i always thought the Goddess wasn't just concerned with females. I'm only assuming this though, .

Pandora wrote:
She has also had some bad experiences teaching men Reiki - not the obvious way, it seems that all the men who've approached her have been the ones who wanted to make money out of Reiki rather than follow a spiritual path.

I can definitely symptathise with this view, .

Take care
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:

chuglet wrote:
In answer to your question about that, no I wouldn't change it..

Jikiden itself, or the name 'Jikiden' (if you changed aspects)?
Jikiden..

chuglet wrote:
They teach chakras in Jikiden? They certainly do not! He was speaking out his kyber pass "The yamaguchi family changes things." Well, the Yamaguchi family IS Jikiden..so who changes things? I doubt the Jikiden UK group would be too pleased to hear about the introduction of unsanctioned teachings emerging..

Considering my 'teacher' then, that was the tip of the iceberg, hehe.

chuglet wrote:
Being more specific about a few of the things I was alluding to in my first post:
The backwards CKR to be used in the southern hemisphere,

For god's sake, hehe. What, was that to stop the water in Austrailia going the 'wrong' way, hehe.
Maybe Chris might be answer this better, as I have a feeling it may have come from Diane Stein?..and I think it was addressed in an experiment Bart did on the simpsons once when he called someone in Australia to see which way the toilet water went down the loo

chuglet wrote:
the removal of belts,watches and jewelry(removing big dangly earrings isn't a bad idea in case you accidentally got hooked or caught on them-only for that reason though) as they will conduct the reiki- maybe somehow diminishing the effectiveness of the treatment..

It's interesting you said that. In Quantum Touch, we're taught to remove belts. As leather seems to just 'soak' up ULE. Hypothesising because it is dead animal. Having said that, i personally diferentiate between what's expereinced in Reiki, and others therapies, Reiki being 'the highest i know of' to borrow a well known little ladies phrase, hehe.
Maybe that is how it made its way into some reiki beliefs..

chuglet wrote:
And in one style of reiki I learned- the use of NLP techniques(which I am not a big fan of and see no need for them in reiki, especially with such wonderful things as Byosen and reiji-ho at our disposal)...

You know my opinion on that mate, it's cool if one wants to do that, and even teach that, and folks want to learn it. Though, in Yoga for instance, we see new styles arising all the time, but they aren't all Inyengar, in fact, there only is one Iyengar style.

Take care
Wayne

Just personally I think the whole muscle checking system is prone to manipulation, and frankly I see it as a head tool which gets in the way of the flow of a reiki session. so I don't teach it or use it..
Funny you mention Iyengar..For while these days he is recognised as one of the world's foremost experts on Yoga..it wasn't always the case...For quite some time he had to put up with derision from some sectors of the Indian Yoga community for not being spiritual enough(it is not my opinion-one just has to read The Tree of Yoga by him to see the depth of his practice)..Then people like Bikram came along and his hot yoga(For Gods sake as if india isn't hot enough already, why would Yogis want to go out of their way to recreate such hot conditions? Not to mention he tried to trademark a set of asanas no doubt around pre-Patanjali days as his own! The gall and the ego) and now Iyengar is the grand old daddy establishment Yoga Guru, with probably the most well known and practiced form of Yoa in the world.. I always admired the precision of his execution of asana, and his attention to detail.and his light on pranayama is a great text.Though Bihar, Shivananda, Swami Vivekanda and the Lonavala school were more up my alley...

chuglet wrote:

Just personally I think the whole muscle checking system is prone to manipulation, and frankly I see it as a head tool which gets in the way of the flow of a reiki session. so I don't teach it or use it..

Muscle checking system?

chuglet wrote:
Funny you mention Iyengar..For while these days he is recognised as one of the world's foremost experts on Yoga..it wasn't always the case...For quite some time he had to put up with derision from some sectors of the Indian Yoga community for not being spiritual enough

Remind you of Reiki? Hehe.

chuglet wrote:
Then people like Bikram came along and his hot yoga(For Gods sake as if india isn't hot enough already, why would Yogis want to go out of their way to recreate such hot conditions?

Yeah, Ashtanga is the same. The goal being to produce internal heat. To purify, detox, and calm the mind.

chuglet wrote:
Not to mention he tried to trademark a set of asanas no doubt around pre-Patanjali days as his own! The gall and the ego) and now Iyengar is the grand old daddy establishment Yoga Guru, with probably the most well known and practiced form of Yoa in the world.. I always admired the precision of his execution of asana, and his attention to detail.and his light on pranayama is a great text.

As you're saying, the precision of the asana is everything in Iyengar. And holding it. For instance, in Sirsasana, during the Iyengar teaching certification, we'd have to hold that posture, absolutely perfect, for at least 5 mins. Well, that was 9 years ago anyhow, i dunno if it's changed since then.

chuglet wrote:
Though Bihar, Shivananda, Swami Vivekanda and the Lonavala school were more up my alley...

i done a term course of Bihar. It was ok i guess, but the more relaxed way of it wasn't what i was used to, and i found less challenging in ways. It seems less physical, if i can call any Hatha Yoga that, hehe.

Take care
Wayne

Then people like Bikram came along and his hot yoga(For Gods sake as if india isn't hot enough already, why would Yogis want to go out of their way to recreate such hot conditions?

This is pretty funny, btw!

I recently read a short interview with Bikram and his ego is so big it wouldn't fit into a yoga studio.

Milarepa wrote:



Muscle checking system?

yes, this is where you make a statement(not ask a question) and the person places their arm up and tries to hold it there while you try to push it down.. If the arm stays up- that is a "yes", if the arm goes down it is supposed to be a "no"...the idea behind it being that you ask the subconcious directly, in order to get a truthful answer...

Milarepa wrote:

chuglet wrote:
Funny you mention Iyengar..For while these days he is recognised as one of the world's foremost experts on Yoga..it wasn't always the case...For quite some time he had to put up with derision from some sectors of the Indian Yoga community for not being spiritual enough

Remind you of Reiki? Hehe.

There's parallels there

Milarepa wrote:

chuglet wrote:
Then people like Bikram came along and his hot yoga(For Gods sake as if india isn't hot enough already, why would Yogis want to go out of their way to recreate such hot conditions?

Yeah, Ashtanga is the same. The goal being to produce internal heat. To purify, detox, and calm the mind.

Milarepa wrote:

chuglet wrote:
Not to mention he tried to trademark a set of asanas no doubt around pre-Patanjali days as his own! The gall and the ego) and now Iyengar is the grand old daddy establishment Yoga Guru, with probably the most well known and practiced form of Yoa in the world.. I always admired the precision of his execution of asana, and his attention to detail.and his light on pranayama is a great text.

As you're saying, the precision of the asana is everything in Iyengar. And holding it. For instance, in Sirsasana, during the Iyengar teaching certification, we'd have to hold that posture, absolutely perfect, for at least 5 mins. Well, that was 9 years ago anyhow, i dunno if it's changed since then.

Milarepa wrote:

chuglet wrote:
Though Bihar, Shivananda, Swami Vivekanda and the Lonavala school were more up my alley...

i done a term course of Bihar. It was ok i guess, but the more relaxed way of it wasn't what i was used to, and i found less challenging in ways. It seems less physical, if i can call any Hatha Yoga that, hehe.

Take care
Wayne

It is the more relaxing way of it that appeals to me..Patanjali said that asana should be done at a comfortable level..
Getting back to Iyengar and his attention to detail..Even he described the shape that the earlobe should be whilst in headstand and the way he can manipulate his muscles whilst in asana is sublime..Wasn't a big fan of the way he taught pranayama generally- a bit too forceful for my liking..and don't know why he didn't seem to include shatkarma in his classes...

Chuglet said:
Just personally I think the whole muscle checking system is prone to manipulation, and frankly I see it as a head tool which gets in the way of the flow of a reiki session. so I don't teach it or use it..
and then...

chuglet wrote:

Milarepa wrote:



Muscle checking system?

yes, this is where you make a statement(not ask a question) and the person places their arm up and tries to hold it there while you try to push it down.. If the arm stays up- that is a "yes", if the arm goes down it is supposed to be a "no"...the idea behind it being that you ask the subconcious directly, in order to get a truthful answer...

This is kinesiology and nothing to do with Reiki - where did you get the idea from that it was part of it?

chuglet wrote:

Milarepa wrote:



Muscle checking system?

yes, this is where you make a statement(not ask a question) and the person places their arm up and tries to hold it there while you try to push it down.. If the arm stays up- that is a "yes", if the arm goes down it is supposed to be a "no"...the idea behind it being that you ask the subconcious directly, in order to get a truthful answer...

kind along the lines of applied kinesiology?

chuglet wrote:
It is the more relaxing way of it that appeals to me..Patanjali said that asana should be done at a comfortable level..

Yeah, but by the time a person is taking the Iyengar teaching course, they're already at the level where it's comfortable to do a headstand for over 5 mins, . At all levels of Yoga, forcing oneself into an asana isn't the way to go. A person shouldn't do an asana for any length if time that is uncomfortable, but say, a 5 minute headstand is to show you can still the body, and mantain that stillness, composure & one-pointed attention for a (normally) unusal amount of time. Dharana (concetration is emphasised in Iyengar.

chuglet wrote:
Wasn't a big fan of the way he taught pranayama generally- a bit too forceful for my liking..and don't know why he didn't seem to include shatkarma in his classes...

The old 'skull polishing' technique was always one of my early favurites in yoga.

BKS Iyengar made Yoga accessible to the west, in a clear way we could all understand, perhaps this is a possible reason. Culturally, the attraction of sucking air or water into ones backside, might shy a certain proportion of potential students away, in the west, hehe.

BKS did stick quite firmly to the eight limbs of Yoga, in this sense it stayed quite traditional.

Take care
Wayne

Pandora wrote:Chuglet said:
Just personally I think the whole muscle checking system is prone to manipulation, and frankly I see it as a head tool which gets in the way of the flow of a reiki session. so I don't teach it or use it..
and then...

chuglet wrote:

Milarepa wrote:



Muscle checking system?

yes, this is where you make a statement(not ask a question) and the person places their arm up and tries to hold it there while you try to push it down.. If the arm stays up- that is a "yes", if the arm goes down it is supposed to be a "no"...the idea behind it being that you ask the subconcious directly, in order to get a truthful answer...

This is kinesiology and nothing to do with Reiki - where did you get the idea from that it was part of it?

Precisely Chris..I don't think it has anything to do with reiki! It is taught as a tool in rainbow reiki..