chi_solas wrote:I like many folks got involved
with Reiki when it came to me
during my healing journey. I was
more involved with healing than
the brief history offered as it
was handed down from my Master
level teacher who to this day I
have great respect for. After I
got more involved with Reiki I
found many Reiki forums,where I
discovered many members were taught
differently than me.Then there were
other folks who debated about the
true history of "Dr" Usui. ...

Indeed.
This is of course a very common situation - especially for those of us who began their journey with Reiki at a time before the Doi and others began promoting, for want of a better expression: "non Takata-lineage" Reiki.

However, my response to Maggie was not concerning issues of the accuracy of the historical details concerning Usui-sensei and Reiki per se , but rather, concerning Maggie's specific encounter with Gendai Reiki Ho

maggie wrote: I have my 2nd level Gendai Reiki. I mistakenly thought that this was THE original Usui Reiki.

As Colin has already pointed out. “Gendai” means “modern”.

Hiroshi Doi openly chose to name his style “Gendai Reiki Ho” (Modern Reiki Method) and has explained that the style is not the same as was practiced and taught by Usui-sensei - that it is in fact a blend of techniques etc. from various sources.

For example, in the 2003 interview for Reiki News Magazine (see this Topic ) Doi clearly states:
[my italics]

“Gendai Reiki Ho can be considered to be Japanese Reiki seen from the perspective of “the energy”, but seen from that of “the use” it is a combination of Japanese and Western. However, from a standpoint of efficacy for “mind/body healing” and “spiritual growth”, the techniques are adopted not only from Japanese Reiki or Western Reiki, but also from other than Reiki Ryoho. In Japan Gendai Reiki Ho is being understood that it is a simplified Japanese Reiki for modern people with an addition of rationality (practicality) of Western Reiki.”

Now, for any student to have completed two levels of training in Gendai Reiki Ho and still be under the impression that what they have been taught is "The original style" (or even just “AN original style”) of Reiki, well, IMO, this goes to the very core of this topic.

Whether it be it in relation to Gendai Reiki Ho, or some other 'Japanese' style, such a failure on the part of the teacher to clarify the nature of the system being shared (when, in the case of Gendai, Doi himself has openly explained it) – such a lack of transparency – dishonours not only the student, but also the specific style/system - which, certainly in the case of Gendai Reiki Ho, is still a valid and effective, if not “original” one.

Rlei_ki wrote:

chi_solas wrote:I like many folks got involved
with Reiki when it came to me
during my healing journey. I was
more involved with healing than
the brief history offered as it
was handed down from my Master
level teacher who to this day I
have great respect for. After I
got more involved with Reiki I
found many Reiki forums,where I
discovered many members were taught
differently than me.Then there were
other folks who debated about the
true history of "Dr" Usui. ...

Indeed.
This is of course a very common situation - especially for those of us who began their journey with Reiki at a time before the Doi and others began promoting, for want of a better expression: "non Takata-lineage" Reiki.

However, my response to Maggie was not concerning issues of the accuracy of the historical details concerning Usui-sensei and Reiki per se , but rather, concerning Maggie's specific encounter with Gendai Reiki Ho

maggie wrote: I have my 2nd level Gendai Reiki. I mistakenly thought that this was THE original Usui Reiki.

As Colin has already pointed out. “Gendai” means “modern”.

Hiroshi Doi openly chose to name his style “Gendai Reiki Ho” (Modern Reiki Method) and has explained that the style is not the same as was practiced and taught by Usui-sensei - that it is in fact a blend of techniques etc. from various sources.

For example, in the 2003 interview for Reiki News Magazine (see this Topic ) Doi clearly states:
[my italics]

“Gendai Reiki Ho can be considered to be Japanese Reiki seen from the perspective of “the energy”, but seen from that of “the use” it is a combination of Japanese and Western. However, from a standpoint of efficacy for “mind/body healing” and “spiritual growth”, the techniques are adopted not only from Japanese Reiki or Western Reiki, but also from other than Reiki Ryoho. In Japan Gendai Reiki Ho is being understood that it is a simplified Japanese Reiki for modern people with an addition of rationality (practicality) of Western Reiki.”

Now, for any student to have completed two levels of training in Gendai Reiki Ho and still be under the impression that what they have been taught is "The original style" (or even just “AN original style”) of Reiki, well, IMO, this goes to the very core of this topic.

Whether it be it in relation to Gendai Reiki Ho, or some other 'Japanese' style, such a failure on the part of the teacher to clarify the nature of the system being shared (when, in the case of Gendai, Doi himself has openly explained it) – such a lack of transparency – dishonours not only the student, but also the specific style/system - which, certainly in the case of Gendai Reiki Ho, is still a valid and effective, if not “original” one.

Thanks for this clarification.It
certainly gives a bigger picture
of the changes that the Reiki
system has under gone. I know that
some folks feel the need to change
the style from Japanese to their own
culture. It has been said that those
who change Usui's format/symbols/rituals
should not promote their Reiki style
using Usui's name.

Pachamama wrote:WoW! my head is spinning after reading this thread!!! to break it down into baby talk ( if i'm correct here) Wayne is suggesting that some folk who have been teaching reiki have infact never been initiated into a lineage that can be traced back to Usui ( is that correct?)

Colin is suggesting that all lineages and practices initiate the recipient into Reiki regardless of where it comes from ( is that correct)

Not quite
I am stating that Mikao Usui developed a system that was called Usui Reiki Ryoho (Usui's Reiki Healing Method).

When this system was passed on by various generations of teacher, it became modified - more or less emphasis on some things leading to some things being left out and some things added.

This resulted in various ways of practicing Usui Reiki Ryoho, depending on what was taught. Many of the various styles of Reiki developed, and many of these styles do not call themselves Usui Reiki Ryoho to indicate that the way they teach Reiki is not the same as the way Usui Sensei taught Reiki.

However, any Reiki teacher who can trace his or her lineage back to Mikao Usui through one or more of these various styles is still initiated into the system of Usui Reiki Ryoho but may teach and/or practice it in a different style.

So I not not referring to Reiki "regardless of where it comes from" only those styles which can trace their lineage back to Mikao Usui - because there are some styles that have the word Reiki in their title that have lineages that do not go back to Mikao Usui e.g. various channelled styles. I do not regard these as Usui Reiki.

Pachamama wrote:
and Colin is also suggesting that if you have been initiated into ten different styles of Reiki, ultimately at the end of the day you are still teaching Reiki.......I'm a little confused on this one Colin.

Yes, if what you have been taught is from a teacher who can trace their lineage back to Mikao Usui you are still teaching Reiki whether you are passing on what was taught to you in a single style (in which case the lineage and name I would give is the lineage and name of that particular style) or if you are passing on a mix of relevant teachings from various styles (in which case I would quote the various lineages from which I have taken the teachings and call the style something different because it is no longer the same as any one style that I have been taught). It now becomes another style of Usui Reiki Ryoho with a new name - but is still just another way of teaching Usui Reiki Ryoho.

Pachamama wrote:
So you have been a student of different styles of Reiki practice, what exactly do you offer your students whilsts teaching Reiki? a combination of everything you have already learnt and just call it Reiki pure and simple?

Yes, currently.

Pachamama wrote:
or do you teach all the styles you have learned seperately? beacuse if you didn't teach seperately then what lineage would you offere in print to your students? because if you didn't stay 'true' to one particular lineage then what lineage do you pass onto your students? and would this be a accurate representation of what a lineage should be?

( just to add, sorry if I've read either one of your views and interpreted them incorrectly) I do find this exchange quite confusing.

I advertise what I teach as Reiki: pure & simple, which is the result of my research and study of various styles of Reiki (which can be traced back to Mikao Usui) in order to try and get as close as I can to what was originally taught. Note that I say "as close as I can to what was originally taught" rather than "what was originally taught". I offer a 3-column lineage back to Mikao Usui in my manuals indicating the sources of what I teach (i.e. 3 different paths back to Mikao Usui) and on my certificates I have the name of the style as Reiki: pure & simple and the name of the system as Usui Reiki Ryoho.

However, because I am also certified to be able to teach Gendai Reiki, Komyo Reiki (also Sekhem Seichim Reiki) and Shoden level of Jikiden Reiki, if someone wanted to learn one of these specific styles then I would teach exactly as I was taught by my teacher in that style and the lineage and certificate I would give would reflect that I have only taught that particular style without any of the other teachings I may have received from other styles or my own research and study.

In the end, if what I am teaching contains the core five elements of Usui Reiki Ryoho: namely, The Reiki Principles, Hand Healing, Techniques, Symbols & Mantras and Attunements then I am still teaching the system of Usui Reiki Ryoho but in a specific style, which is unlikely to be exactly the same as Mikao Usui (as no one really knows exactly what or how he taught his system. So anyone teaching his system must be teaching it in a different style).

As an analogy, let's think of the system of Usui Reiki Ryoho as the system of playing guitar. In the beginning someone developed a system to play the guitar. As this system was taught to various students, some of them developed different styles of playing, which involved using different techniques, different shaped guitars and even different numbers of strings. These have developed into styles such as folk, classical ,flamenco, blues, rock, metal but all these styles still involve playing the guitar and experienced players in each of those styles would be capable of playing the same song although their interpretation of the song may be different. The end result is the same - the guitar is being played. The various styles are just different ways of practicing the same system.

Does that help make it any clearer, Sharon?

Hi Wayne and everyone,
Yes, this is quite a thread - intrigue, frustration and betrayal. All good plots for a movie I think.
But seriously, I can understand the concern and so I've weighed in on this thread.

In Gendai Reiki-ho book, the introduction shares some of Hiroshi Doi's training.
Sorry for the length but it is history..

Doi-sensei demonstrates how he integrates Western and original Japanese Reiki Ryoho, allowing his students to receive the benefit of his experience in both styles. His Reiki knowledge extends from his original Japanese Reiki style training with Hiroshi Ohta Sensei (of Kani'ichi Taketomi-sensei lineage) and later with Kimiko Koyama-sensei (6th chairperson of the Usui Reiki Ryoho Gakkai and also of Taketomi-sensei lineage); it continues through the Western oriented teachings of the Radiance Technique and the various Hawayo Takata-sensei styles that he learned in Japan and in Canada. Doi-sensei also studied with Mrs. Chiyoko Yamaguchi.

Based on this I would have to say that Gendai Reiki is a combination of Usui Reiki Ryoho, Usui Gakkai and Takata - Usui Shiki.
The next question possibly might be in what style did he receive his Reiki Master in??

I don't know if this adds any clarity to this thread but just wanted to share.

Unfortunately, I have had no training with the Stein's so will not tread here.

With regards to the 21 day cleanse, it is not something that the Japanese teachers (Doi, Inamoto, Yamaguchi) speak about. Therefore, it may be a Western addition.
We know Usui-sensei did a ritual 21 day meditation as per his training however the purpose was to attain enlightenment or satori.

Blessings, __/\__

Colin wrote:

Pachamama wrote:WoW! my head is spinning after reading this thread!!! to break it down into baby talk ( if i'm correct here) Wayne is suggesting that some folk who have been teaching reiki have infact never been initiated into a lineage that can be traced back to Usui ( is that correct?)

Colin is suggesting that all lineages and practices initiate the recipient into Reiki regardless of where it comes from ( is that correct)

Not quite
I am stating that Mikao Usui developed a system that was called Usui Reiki Ryoho (Usui's Reiki Healing Method).

When this system was passed on by various generations of teacher, it became modified - more or less emphasis on some things leading to some things being left out and some things added.

This resulted in various ways of practicing Usui Reiki Ryoho, depending on what was taught. Many of the various styles of Reiki developed, and many of these styles do not call themselves Usui Reiki Ryoho to indicate that the way they teach Reiki is not the same as the way Usui Sensei taught Reiki.

However, any Reiki teacher who can trace his or her lineage back to Mikao Usui through one or more of these various styles is still initiated into the system of Usui Reiki Ryoho but may teach and/or practice it in a different style.

So I not not referring to Reiki "regardless of where it comes from" only those styles which can trace their lineage back to Mikao Usui - because there are some styles that have the word Reiki in their title that have lineages that do not go back to Mikao Usui e.g. various channelled styles. I do not regard these as Usui Reiki.

Pachamama wrote:
and Colin is also suggesting that if you have been initiated into ten different styles of Reiki, ultimately at the end of the day you are still teaching Reiki.......I'm a little confused on this one Colin.

Yes, if what you have been taught is from a teacher who can trace their lineage back to Mikao Usui you are still teaching Reiki whether you are passing on what was taught to you in a single style (in which case the lineage and name I would give is the lineage and name of that particular style) or if you are passing on a mix of relevant teachings from various styles (in which case I would quote the various lineages from which I have taken the teachings and call the style something different because it is no longer the same as any one style that I have been taught). It now becomes another style of Usui Reiki Ryoho with a new name - but is still just another way of teaching Usui Reiki Ryoho.

Pachamama wrote:
So you have been a student of different styles of Reiki practice, what exactly do you offer your students whilsts teaching Reiki? a combination of everything you have already learnt and just call it Reiki pure and simple?

Yes, currently.

Pachamama wrote:
or do you teach all the styles you have learned seperately? beacuse if you didn't teach seperately then what lineage would you offere in print to your students? because if you didn't stay 'true' to one particular lineage then what lineage do you pass onto your students? and would this be a accurate representation of what a lineage should be?

( just to add, sorry if I've read either one of your views and interpreted them incorrectly) I do find this exchange quite confusing.

I advertise what I teach as Reiki: pure & simple, which is the result of my research and study of various styles of Reiki (which can be traced back to Mikao Usui) in order to try and get as close as I can to what was originally taught. Note that I say "as close as I can to what was originally taught" rather than "what was originally taught". I offer a 3-column lineage back to Mikao Usui in my manuals indicating the sources of what I teach (i.e. 3 different paths back to Mikao Usui) and on my certificates I have the name of the style as Reiki: pure & simple and the name of the system as Usui Reiki Ryoho.

However, because I am also certified to be able to teach Gendai Reiki, Komyo Reiki (also Sekhem Seichim Reiki) and Shoden level of Jikiden Reiki, if someone wanted to learn one of these specific styles then I would teach exactly as I was taught by my teacher in that style and the lineage and certificate I would give would reflect that I have only taught that particular style without any of the other teachings I may have received from other styles or my own research and study.

In the end, if what I am teaching contains the core five elements of Usui Reiki Ryoho: namely, The Reiki Principles, Hand Healing, Techniques, Symbols & Mantras and Attunements then I am still teaching the system of Usui Reiki Ryoho but in a specific style, which is unlikely to be exactly the same as Mikao Usui (as no one really knows exactly what or how he taught his system. So anyone teaching his system must be teaching it in a different style).

As an analogy, let's think of the system of Usui Reiki Ryoho as the system of playing guitar. In the beginning someone developed a system to play the guitar. As this system was taught to various students, some of them developed different styles of playing, which involved using different techniques, different shaped guitars and even different numbers of strings. These have developed into styles such as folk, classical ,flamenco, blues, rock, metal but all these styles still involve playing the guitar and experienced players in each of those styles would be capable of playing the same song although their interpretation of the song may be different. The end result is the same - the guitar is being played. The various styles are just different ways of practicing the same system.

Does that help make it any clearer, Sharon?

Yes it does, thank you for your indepth explanations Colin!!

Rlei_ki wrote:

chi_solas wrote:I like many folks got involved
with Reiki when it came to me
during my healing journey. I was
more involved with healing than
the brief history offered as it
was handed down from my Master
level teacher who to this day I
have great respect for. After I
got more involved with Reiki I
found many Reiki forums,where I
discovered many members were taught
differently than me.Then there were
other folks who debated about the
true history of "Dr" Usui. ...

Indeed.
This is of course a very common situation - especially for those of us who began their journey with Reiki at a time before the Doi and others began promoting, for want of a better expression: "non Takata-lineage" Reiki.

However, my response to Maggie was not concerning issues of the accuracy of the historical details concerning Usui-sensei and Reiki per se , but rather, concerning Maggie's specific encounter with Gendai Reiki Ho

maggie wrote: I have my 2nd level Gendai Reiki. I mistakenly thought that this was THE original Usui Reiki.

As Colin has already pointed out. “Gendai” means “modern”.

Hiroshi Doi openly chose to name his style “Gendai Reiki Ho” (Modern Reiki Method) and has explained that the style is not the same as was practiced and taught by Usui-sensei - that it is in fact a blend of techniques etc. from various sources.

For example, in the 2003 interview for Reiki News Magazine (see this Topic ) Doi clearly states:
[my italics]

“Gendai Reiki Ho can be considered to be Japanese Reiki seen from the perspective of “the energy”, but seen from that of “the use” it is a combination of Japanese and Western. However, from a standpoint of efficacy for “mind/body healing” and “spiritual growth”, the techniques are adopted not only from Japanese Reiki or Western Reiki, but also from other than Reiki Ryoho. In Japan Gendai Reiki Ho is being understood that it is a simplified Japanese Reiki for modern people with an addition of rationality (practicality) of Western Reiki.”

Now, for any student to have completed two levels of training in Gendai Reiki Ho and still be under the impression that what they have been taught is "The original style" (or even just “AN original style”) of Reiki, well, IMO, this goes to the very core of this topic.

Whether it be it in relation to Gendai Reiki Ho, or some other 'Japanese' style, such a failure on the part of the teacher to clarify the nature of the system being shared (when, in the case of Gendai, Doi himself has openly explained it) – such a lack of transparency – dishonours not only the student, but also the specific style/system - which, certainly in the case of Gendai Reiki Ho, is still a valid and effective, if not “original” one.

I'm sorry, I should have given a clearer picture. I had two different Reiki Masters. My first Reiki Master and I just couldn't connect. I don't know why. Just one of those things I guess. My 2nd level Reiki Master ( a wonderful young woman )attuned me and her mother as a gift on Mothers Day. She lives in a different city quite far away. So really I guess you could say I am just feeling my way along on my own. This is why I am so glad I found this forum. Really I can't fault them for the misunderstanding.
By the way I followed that link to James Deacons Reiki pages. Wow! It's fantastico!

James's website is definitely THE place to get educated. I've been reading it for a few years now, and i've still got LOTS to learn!