Most of the material from this article isn't my own. I've been permitted to use this persons research, and to add anything further of my own. I'd like to give thanks first to the person who provided me with this information.

Although i don't wish to negatively speak about any style, i feel i have just to say how things exactly are. The styles aforementioned havn't really deliberatly set out to fool anyone, one or two have actually been upfront. What i've noticed really, is how we, practitioners will actually fool ourselves. Fool ourselves into assuming these styles are something they are not. In fact, some members of these styles openly look down on the parent style, Usui Shiki Ryoho. Which is very ironic, as i hope to show here.


How many of you have lineage? How many know the importance of lineage? A teacher should of course, for a start. Lineage lets others know of your traceable spiritual & style of training. It gives one the authority to say they are of that style, as it's easily checked. Sometimes, someone might come along and suggest your style is wrong. As happened recently to someone in Usui Shiki Ryoho. Perhaps you would be gave the advice of re-training in another lineage. Perhaps Usui Reiki Ryoho. As happened to someone recently. Correct me if i'm missing something here, but exactly what Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage are we talking about?



Most ususal, folks who claim to be of this style are traceable back to Hiroshi Doi/Gakkai lineage. However:

hiroshi doi wrote:
"I have taught nothing but Gendai Reikiho until now, and I will never teach anything else in the future as well"

Source: http://homepage3.nifty.com/GendaiReiki/gendaireikihomastecertification.html


As we can see, Hiroshi may have taught some techniques that he claims is from Usui Reiki Ryoho, however he has never energetically passed on the Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage, or taught any Usui Reiki Ryoho courses!



Let's now take a look at the Steines'. They use Hiroshis Gendai Reiki ho lineage for their Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage! They say:

Steines wrote:have been granted direct permission from Doi Hiroshi to use his lineage for their teachings of Usui Reiki Ryoho.

It's worth pointing out that only a Master of a lineage is spiritually empowered to pass that on to another. In this case, neither Hiroshi Doi nor the Steines are Masters of Usui Reiki Ryoho.

In fact, the Steines tell us that their version of Usui Reiki Ryoho is a collection of material from Japanese books, and pieced together ideas, and from this they have created thier own expression of Usui Reiki Reiki Ryoho.

Source: http://www.reiki.net.au/copy.asp?id=BenefitsBranches



So let me get this straight... The so called 'traditional' style of Usui Reiki Ryoho is actually a very modern personal expression of what may or many not have been originally taught. And to completely compound the issue, neither the Steines, nor Hiroshi Doi have ever recieved initiation into Master level in the lineage of Usui Reiki Ryoho. Kinda like Usui Do is said to be an authentic 'reconstruction' of the spiritual system of Mikao Usui

I'm really confused as to where the authority to teach in a style that is supposed to be the original one, actually comes from? If no-one has been initiated to Master lev into in it, has been actually taught it, then how is it taught?

Isn't it ironic then, how the 'elite' look down on Usui Shiki Ryoho?

Warmest wishes
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:
The styles aforementioned havn't really deliberatly set out to fool anyone, one or two have actually been upfront. What i've noticed really, is how we, practitioners will actually fool ourselves. Fool ourselves into assuming these styles are something they are not. In fact, some members of these styles openly look down on the parent style, Usui Shiki Ryoho. Which is very ironic, as i hope to show here.

"styles aforementioned"? Is there part of this missing? I can't see any aforementioned styles.

I certainly agree, however, that "we practitioners actually fool ourselves" in many cases. As has been mentioned here previously, if something is mentioned as an opinion or suggestion or a thought, if it is repeated often enough without the proper context, it can turn into a "fact" and becomes part of "how it really is".

I also agree that Hiroshi Doi has certainly not pushed Gendai Reiki as Usui Reiki Ryoho (or Usui Shiki Ryoho, or Radiance Technique). He has always said that Gendai Reiki is a new system of Reiki for the modern world that is quick and easy to learn and practice. In fact "Gendai" actually means "modern" so it can't be an old original style. Although there are influences (and some techniques) from Usui Reiki Ryoho in Gendai Reiki, there are also many other influences, including many non-Reiki systems. If Doi was initiated by Mrs Koyama, as he does say, then his lineage is through Usui Reiki Ryoho. However, the question is then: how much of the Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage "energy" is passed on through a Gendai Reiki attunement?

Then again, another part of me thinks that if all Reiki attunement methods result in a person being able to practice the core of the system of Reiki (i.e. benefit from reciting the Gokai, emanate/generate Reiki while practicing on oneself or another) then all the arguments about lineages and different styles come down to arguments about what is or isn't included in the curriculum. Does it really matter that much as long as there are more Reiki practitioners in the world practicing in a sincere and dedicated way?

Yes, to some (including myself) it is interesting to try and keep as close as possible to what was orginally taught but I don't think it is essential, as long as one has received an initiation from someone in a lineage that goes back to Usui and has at least been taught the bare essentials of Reiki practice.

The Steines have a similar interest in trying to uncover what was taught originally and, more importantly to me, have conducted research into what may have influenced Mikao Usui when he was developing his system (some earlier research may have been "second hand", or from dubious sources, but they have since uncovered some very interesting stuff, that is not mind-shatteringly important (or essential) for the practice of Reiki but is interesting nonetheless for deepening one's understanding of the system.

I don't really see any problem with piecing together a style of Reiki from various sources in order to try and get a deeper understanding and to try and get closer to what Mikao Usui may have taught by removing various add-ons, as they are seen to be add-ons (as long as the person who is piecing things together is an initiated Reiki teacher who can trace their lineage back to Mikao Usui). I am all in favour of a move back to simplicity and de-cluttering the system. Even Phyllis Furumoto says in her radio shows that she has now returned to teaching in a simpler way, removing some of the add-ons that had crept into her practice.

The main issue with trying to get back to just what was taught originally is that no-one nowadays really knows what was taught originally! All we can do is look at the system as we have been taught and try to determine through research and existing evidence which parts are original and which parts have been added in by someone in our lineage(s).

Or we can simply say: "just for today, do not worry" and carry on practicing the system of Reiki that we have been initiated into - as long as it makes us happy and we are able to be kind to ourselves and others.

I don't have any problem with people who practice Reiki either way (trying to get back to the original way or practicing exactly what they have been taught). The main problem, as your source suggests, is when people start to believe that what they are practicing is something that it is not and try to tell others that theirs is the only way. Very often it is the students of teachers who have misunderstood what they have been taught who create problems.

Just for the record, my lineages do include Hiroshi Doi, Hyakuten Inamoto, Tadao Yamaguchi and Phyllis Furumoto and I have met with the Steines attended some of their workshops and had much communication with Frans, so I have a pretty good idea about what is taught in these various styles.

Did I really need to be initiated into all these lineages/styles? Do I really need to do any research to see where what I teach has come from? Does it make the way I teach Reiki any better than anyone else? Does it make what I teach more original? Is it more powerful? Do I feel the need to "look down" on other styles?

None of the above - but it helps me feel happier and to achieve a deeper connection with what I teach and practice. It enthuses me and I hope that some of my enthusiasm and passion is passed on to my students along with the Reiki when I teach what I teach.

Just one more thing though: Usui Shiki Ryoho was the "parent style"?
What was the name of the system on the oldest Reiki certificates?

Colin wrote: If Doi was initiated by Mrs Koyama, as he does say, then his lineage is through Usui Reiki Ryoho. However, the question is then: how much of the Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage "energy" is passed on through a Gendai Reiki attunement?

How much that actually entitles someone to say they are experiencing in that way. When you teach someone your style, are they also able to say they've been initiated into Jikiden, simply because you have?

Colin wrote:
Then again, another part of me thinks that if all Reiki attunement methods result in a person being able to practice the core of the system of Reiki (i.e. benefit from reciting the Gokai, emanate/generate Reiki while practicing on oneself or another) then all the arguments about lineages and different styles come down to arguments about what is or isn't included in the curriculum. Does it really matter that much as long as there are more Reiki practitioners in the world practicing in a sincere and dedicated way?

Ultimately, not much matters Colin. Though there's little to ever talk about or explore if we go down that route!

Colin wrote:
I don't really see any problem with piecing together a style of Reiki from various sources in order to try and get a deeper understanding and to try and get closer to what Mikao Usui may have taught by removing various add-ons, as they are seen to be add-ons (as long as the person who is piecing things together is an initiated Reiki teacher who can trace their lineage back to Mikao Usui).

Sure, but to experience a style isn't just about learning techniques. Else we can read a manual, and say we can practice that style.

Can i ask you something though. If i gather all the material i can about Jikiden, can i start teaching it then? And not just level 1 & 2, but all levels. I wouldn't need all the material, just enough to piece together some idea which may or may not be correct. I don't need any attunement or Reiju, after all, my current lineage is from Usui-Hayashi. In fact, i wonder why teachers in these styles even bother with Reiju, or lineage, if they already have it in their previous styles. Lineage & attumeneent/Reiju isn't important?

My understanding of Reiki styles, and their indidvidual integrity (and i could be wrong) is that practiable approach (techniques), spiritual/energetic empowerment (attunements/Reiju), and lineage, are the three main things which identify any one single style. In what i'm speaking of here, two are missing. There is no Usui Reiki Ryoho attunements/Reiju, and no lineage. Only some academic research. That hardly entitles someone to teach that style Colin.

Colin wrote:
Just one more thing though: Usui Shiki Ryoho was the "parent style"?
What was the name of the system on the oldest Reiki certificates?

I'm talking about folks who's parent style is Usui Shiki Ryoho.

warmest wishes
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:

Colin wrote: If Doi was initiated by Mrs Koyama, as he does say, then his lineage is through Usui Reiki Ryoho. However, the question is then: how much of the Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage "energy" is passed on through a Gendai Reiki attunement?

How much that actually entitles someone to say they are experiencing in that way. When you teach someone your style, are they also able to say they've been initiated into Jikiden, simply because you have?

I believe that when students are initiated they experience an increased awareness and ability to emanate/generate Reiki - they are not initiated into a specific system of practice but through a specific style of practice. There is only one Reiki, ultimately, although there are many ways to achieve awareness of it i.e. various attunement/initiation/reiju methods and even spontaneous (like Usui). It is really the different ways that a student is taught to practice and use that awareness that gives rise to the different styles. Part of the way a student is taught (at level 3/Shinpiden) is how to perform the initiation/reiju and again this is where the styles can differ but all achieve the same end.

Lineage is important as far as showing that a person has received an initiation from someone who received an initiation from someone...who received an initiation from Mikao Usui. However, the actual initiation method used by the teachers in most lineages - particularly those further down the list below one of Takata's master students will most likely (almost certainly) not be the same initiation method that Takata or Hayashi or Usui used. Yet most Reiki practitioners would say they practice the system of Reiki.

When someone attends a Gendai Reiki, Komyo Reiki, Jikiden Reiki or Usui Shiki Ryoho seminar and receives their initiation/attunement/reiju they are all going to experience the same end result - an increased awareness of and ability to emanate/generate Reiki (as long as the teacher can demonstrate a lineage back to Mikao Usui). It is what they are taught in the seminar that determines what style they will be practicing - if they so choose.

If they don't want to practice everything in the exact way they have been taught, because it doesn't feel right to them or it doesn't make sense to them or they already practice in a different way and don't feel the need to change then that is OK too. Attending seminars of the various styles of Reiki does not make you a practitioner of that particular style. It only gives you the tools/knowledge to be able to practice in that style - if you so choose. You have to practice the style to be a practitioner of that style!

So, although I have received initiations in many different styles of Reiki, I prefer to call myself a Reiki practitioner rather than a Usui Shiki Ryoho/Gendai/Komyo/Jikiden/Seichim/Seichim-Sekhem-Reiki/Imara/Karuna Ki/Usui Reiki Ryoho practitioner.

I would not expect my students to say they are anything other than a Reiki practitioner who has been attuned through the system of Usui Reiki Ryoho (because my lineage goes back to Mikao Usui) in the style of Reiki: pure & simple (because I teach my own style which is formed from my own experience and research and resonates with me the most, which is the only way I can teach from the heart).

In other words, I believe there is only one phenomenon called Reiki and one system of Usui Reiki Ryoho (Usui's Healing method that utilises the Reiki phenomenon) but many styles or ways of practicing that system in order to utilise that phenomenon.

Milarepa wrote:

Colin wrote:
Then again, another part of me thinks that if all Reiki attunement methods result in a person being able to practice the core of the system of Reiki (i.e. benefit from reciting the Gokai, emanate/generate Reiki while practicing on oneself or another) then all the arguments about lineages and different styles come down to arguments about what is or isn't included in the curriculum. Does it really matter that much as long as there are more Reiki practitioners in the world practicing in a sincere and dedicated way?

Ultimately, not much matters Colin. Though there's little to ever talk about or explore if we go down that route!

I agree and I also find it interesting what Robert Fueston said in the interview he did with Pamela Miles that after all the research he has undertaken he wonders how much more beneficial it may have been to him to have spent that time and energy just practicing Reiki. But I also think that to be able to teach the system of Reiki from a place of understanding and honesty, from the heart the teacher needs to have experienced a style of practicing Reiki that he/she feels completely comfortable with - even if that means developing a style from various sources. This requires time and research in order to discover ways of practicing and teaching the core elements of the system of Reiki that really resonate with them. Of course, if you resonate completely with the style that you have been taught/initiated through then you will be able to teach from the heart without any further research or need to add or remove anything from what you have been taught.

Milarepa wrote:

Colin wrote:
I don't really see any problem with piecing together a style of Reiki from various sources in order to try and get a deeper understanding and to try and get closer to what Mikao Usui may have taught by removing various add-ons, as they are seen to be add-ons (as long as the person who is piecing things together is an initiated Reiki teacher who can trace their lineage back to Mikao Usui).

Sure, but to experience a style isn't just about learning techniques. Else we can read a manual, and say we can practice that style.

As I mentioned above, I think the various styles only differ in the way that the various core elements of the system of Reiki are taught. As it happens, one of the things that the Stienes have given us is the Five Elements that define the System of Reiki (i.e. Usui Reiki Ryoho): Palm Healing, The Reiki Principles, Symbols & Mantras, Techniques and the Attunements. Note that I purposely avoided using any Japanese terms to avoid links with any particular style of practice of these elements!

To me, these Five Elements define the System of Reiki they do not define the many styles of practicing that system. As long as the style in which you are practicing the System of Reiki has these elements then you are a Reiki practitioner. However, I would probably add that the Attunement element assumes that the teacher performing the attunement can show a lineage back to Mikao Usui i.e. has been initiated into the system of Reiki through a particular style.

Milarepa wrote:

Can i ask you something though. If i gather all the material i can about Jikiden, can i start teaching it then? And not just level 1 & 2, but all levels. I wouldn't need all the material, just enough to piece together some idea which may or may not be correct. I don't need any attunement or Reiju, after all, my current lineage is from Usui-Hayashi. In fact, i wonder why teachers in these styles even bother with Reiju, or lineage, if they already have it in their previous styles. Lineage & attumeneent/Reiju isn't important?

If you gathered all the material you could about Jikiden Reiki then you could include it in what you teach but you would not be teaching in the style of Jikiden Reiki unless you had received initiation in the style of Jikiden Reiki and also how to perform the initiation in the style of Jikiden Reiki (which is something you will not be able to find unless you have attended at least Shihan Kaku seminar or can find a disrespectful Reiki practitioner who would divulge that information). The initiation method is part of the style so if you were teaching material that includes what is taught in Jikiden Reiki seminars but did not initiate students using the Jikiden Reiki Reiju Method then you would be teaching a different style and it would be respectful to give that style a different name - like Hyakuten Inamoto has done with Komyo Reiki.

To be able to say you teach a specific style such as Gendai, Komyo, Jikiden Reiki or Usui Shiki Ryoho you really need to teach all of the elements associated with that style or else you are teaching a different style (even if it is a style with only one element that is practiced differently).

So, yes, lineage is important to show the path(s) along which your style of practicing the System of Reiki has developed. Reiju/attunement method, together with techniques and symbols etc. are important if you want to pass a particular style of practice on to your students. I do belive that you need to have been initiated through a style to be able to pass on that style. However, see below..

Milarepa wrote:

My understanding of Reiki styles, and their indidvidual integrity (and i could be wrong) is that practiable approach (techniques), spiritual/energetic empowerment (attunements/Reiju), and lineage, are the three main things which identify any one single style. In what i'm speaking of here, two are missing. There is no Usui Reiki Ryoho attunements/Reiju, and no lineage. Only some academic research. That hardly entitles someone to teach that style Colin.

If you want to teach elements from various styles you have received initiations through and also include material from your own research and experience then I agree that that does not entitle you to teach a specific existing style because you will have created a new, personal style. Most respectful teachers will therefore at that point give that style a new name because it is not the same style they were initiated through even though, it may still be a way of practicing the System of Usui Reiki.

It is unfortunate that many teachers just continue to use the same name of the style they were taught, which is one reason that Usui Shiki Ryoho is practiced in so many ways. Some teachers who say they are teaching the style of Usui Shiki Ryoho include chakras, crystals, Reiki guides etc. none of which was taught as Usui Shiki Ryoho by Takata or many of her master students. However most will be practicing the System of Usui Reiki Ryoho because they still teach the Five Elements of the System - just a different way of practicing some of these elements.

I think that this is what has really given rise to much of the confusion and argument nowadays - the fact that often quite different styles of practice carry the same name. If you call the style you teach a different name (if it is different to the style you were taught) then the need to argue about what is or isn't part of that style disappears! However, as long as your lineage is traced back to Mikao Usui and your continue to include the Five Core Elements then you are still practicing the System of Usui Reiki Ryoho but in your own style!

Milarepa wrote:

Colin wrote:
Just one more thing though: Usui Shiki Ryoho was the "parent style"?
What was the name of the system on the oldest Reiki certificates?

I'm talking about folks who's parent style is Usui Shiki Ryoho.

warmest wishes
Wayne

So, to summarise:

My opinion (which may not be the reality, of course!) is that Usui Reiki Ryoho is not a style of Reiki - it is the System that Mikao Usui initially developed (it has to be called something so that name is as good as any). To be considered as a practitioner of that system one must have a lineage that goes back to Mikao Usui and one must have been taught the Five Core Elements of the System of Reiki: Palm Healing, Reiki Principles, Techniques, Symbols & Mantras, and also Attunements. (The last two elements being usually taught more fully in the 2nd and 3rd levels.)


Usui Shiki Ryoho, Gendai Reiki, Komyo Reiki, Jikiden Reiki, International House of Reiki (IHOR) Reiki etc. are all different styles of practicing Usui Reiki Ryoho. To be considered a practitioner of a particular style of Reiki one must have been initiated into the system of Reiki through a particular style by a teacher who can trace his/her lineage back to Mikao Usui, and one must practice in the way that one was taught. If the person does not practice (or teach) in the way that they were taught then they should be considered to be a practitioner of a different style of Reiki - but still a Reiki practitioner.

This is all cool Colin. it's cool to use a lineage from a style such as Gendai, in this modern Usui Reiki Ryoho? And it's perfectly acceptable to never have been attuned under Usui's Reiki Ryoho system, yet still attune others under that name? And to also have never been formally taught Usui Reiki Ryoho, and gathered material from books, etc. All because once there was one catch all system?

I've got a mental block with this, but how has Usui Reiki Ryoho system that Usui taught, anything to do with a modern (at best) educated guess) that some have come up with? Whilst Usui's may have been a system, the modern guesswork is a style. Even if Usui Reiki Ryoho is a system (as Usui taught), i'm still wondering where the authority comes to teach others that system?

The Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage that the steines say they teach doesn't exist. Gendai lineage isn't it. Neither is any other style we know. Reason i know this is cause things changed in the course of time. Any Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage will include a traceable history back to Usui. But if i looked at it, it will surely be a culmination of different styles. For sure, it'll say Usui Reiki Ryoho at the top, and the steines will be right up their. Then we'll see Gendai lineage from Hiroshi next. It's crazy, cause Hiroshi never taught them Usui Reiki Ryoho, so how can he be included in the Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage?

warmest wishes
Wayne

Milarepa wrote:
This is all cool Colin. it's cool to use a lineage from a style such as Gendai, in this modern Usui Reiki Ryoho? And it's perfectly acceptable to never have been attuned under Usui's Reiki Ryoho system, yet still attune others under that name? And to also have never been formally taught Usui Reiki Ryoho, and gathered material from books, etc. All because once there was one catch all system?

Yes, it's all cool, Wayne, so chill!
What the Steines teach for the most part is in fact what could be called the Usui Reiki Ryoho Gakkai parts of Gendai Reiki (i.e. traditional Reiki techniques taught as part of Gendai Reiki by Hiroshi Doi - as opposed to modern techniques and techniques from non-Reiki sources) so why not use his lineage if he initiated them and they are teaching a large part of what he taught them?

I would prefer it if they called what they teach something other than Usui Reiki Ryoho though because they have created a new style from what they have been taught and have researched. Incidentally, much of the researched stuff from books etc. is taught as background information not actual techniques so they are not changing the system of Reiki but are teaching a particular style, which may be better called International House of Reiki style rather than Usui Reiki Ryoho, which, as I have tried to point out is the name of the system rather than a style.

Milarepa wrote:

I've got a mental block with this, but how has Usui Reiki Ryoho system that Usui taught, anything to do with a modern (at best) educated guess) that some have come up with? Whilst Usui's may have been a system, the modern guesswork is a style. Even if Usui Reiki Ryoho is a system (as Usui taught), i'm still wondering where the authority comes to teach others that system?

The Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage that the steines say they teach doesn't exist. Gendai lineage isn't it. Neither is any other style we know. Reason i know this is cause things changed in the course of time. Any Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage will include a traceable history back to Usui. But if i looked at it, it will surely be a culmination of different styles. For sure, it'll say Usui Reiki Ryoho at the top, and the steines will be right up their. Then we'll see Gendai lineage from Hiroshi next. It's crazy, cause Hiroshi never taught them Usui Reiki Ryoho, so how can he be included in the Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage?

warmest wishes
Wayne

Have another read of my post and let's wait to see if anyone else has any comments to make. I really can't be bothered arguing/discussing it any more today. Particularly since, as is clear from previous posts on here, your mind is already made up that Doi has made everything up, the Gakkai and the Hikkei are made up and only Takata passed on what Usui taught because Hayashi didn't change anything and neither did Takata.

Colin wrote:
Yes, it's all cool, Wayne, so chill!

I am chilled, i've got nothing emotional invested in this, hehe.

Colin wrote:
What the Steines teach for the most part is in fact what could be called the Usui Reiki Ryoho Gakkai parts of Gendai Reiki (i.e. traditional Reiki techniques taught as part of Gendai Reiki by Hiroshi Doi - as opposed to modern techniques and techniques from non-Reiki sources) so why not use his lineage if he initiated them and they are teaching a large part of what he taught them?

because Gendai lineage isn't Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage. and Hiroshi never spiritually empowered them in Usui Reiki Ryoho.He dopesn't even know himself how to do that, fo rone, he's not at teacher level in this Gakkai, and for two - didn't Hiroshi make up the Reiju himself, based on what he thinks may have happened. Hiroshi's is a made up Reiju, in his Gendai made up style. The Steines then use his lineage from Gendai, in their made up Usui Reiki Ryoho. If t's not obvious what's wrong with this, i dunno, hehe.

Colin wrote:
which, as I have tried to point out is the name of the system rather than a style.

you never 'tried ' to point it out, i read it loud & clear. Maybe it was me who has tried to point out there is likely a bit of difference between the original system of Usui Reiki Ryoho, and this modern version, which is a style, not the original system. The comparisons are only similar in name, and perhaps, somwe techniques. Lineage, and attunement/Reiju will be wrong.

Colin wrote:
Have another read of my post and let's wait to see if anyone else has any comments to make. I really can't be bothered arguing/discussing it any more today.

we're having a friendly discussion, as is meant to be on a forum. before anything otherwise is alluded,

I don't need to re-read anything you've said. I've read on the steines website..

steines wrote:
The Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage as taught by the International House of Reiki aims to reflect the practices that were taught by Usui Mikao during his lifetime.

Source: http://www.reiki.net.au/copy.asp?id=BenefitsBranches

and i'm finding it hard to see where this lineage has came from.

Colin wrote:
Particularly since, as is clear from previous posts on here, your mind is already made up that Doi has made everything up, the Gakkai and the Hikkei are made up and only Takata passed on what Usui taught because Hayashi didn't change anything and neither did Takata.

Aww come on Colin, these other topics haven't got anything to do with the subject of this topic. I'll stick in this topic to what Hiroshi & Steines have said. Nice try though!

warmest wishes
Wayne

Good morning! Today is another day! So, just for today...

Milarepa wrote:
because Gendai lineage isn't Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage. and Hiroshi never spiritually empowered them in Usui Reiki Ryoho.He dopesn't even know himself how to do that, fo rone, he's not at teacher level in this Gakkai, and for two - didn't Hiroshi make up the Reiju himself, based on what he thinks may have happened. Hiroshi's is a made up Reiju, in his Gendai made up style. The Steines then use his lineage from Gendai, in their made up Usui Reiki Ryoho. If t's not obvious what's wrong with this, i dunno, hehe.

I agree, Gendai lineage is not Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage. Gendai lineage only starts from Hiroshi Doi.
The lineage used by the Steines is Hiroshi Doi's lineage - not the same thing as Gendai lineage. Gendai Reiki did not exist when Doi received his initiations from Koyama sensei, Mieko Mitsui, Mr Ohta and Mr Masona (Neo Reiki) but it is from these sources (among others) that he developed his own style of Gendai Reiki. The main thing is that he is as qualified as anyone else to initiate others into the system of Reiki (Usui Reiki Ryoho) because he has received initiation and instruction on how to do this in at least one Reiki style. My opinion is that it is the receiving of an initiation to the system of Reiki (in whatever style) together with being taught how to initiate others that is important - not the actual style one chooses to practice and/or teach to others. If that was not the case then there would only be one style of Reiki because if someone decided not to use the exact way of initiating others that they had been taught then they would not be able to bring the awareness and ability to emanate/generate Reiki in their students and that lineage would go no further.

I also agree that Doi (and his supporters) may well place a little too much emphasis on his Gakkai lineage above his other lineages, as it is the Neo Reiki one, in which he has certainly received initiation to Master level - which means he can initiate others into the system of Reiki (using Neo Reiki style or his own style). However, the Gakkai lineage does show where a significant part of what he teaches in Gendai Reiki has come from.

Milarepa wrote:

Colin wrote:
which, as I have tried to point out is the name of the system rather than a style.

you never 'tried ' to point it out, i read it loud & clear. Maybe it was me who has tried to point out there is likely a bit of difference between the original system of Usui Reiki Ryoho, and this modern version, which is a style, not the original system. The comparisons are only similar in name, and perhaps, somwe techniques. Lineage, and attunement/Reiju will be wrong.

Trying to compare differences between the system of Reiki and one of its styles is like trying to compare differences between the religion (system) of Islam (or Christianity etc.) with one of its sects. You can compare the way the various sects practice the system of Islam or Christianity but they are all practicing Islam or Christianity. So, yes, of course there will be differences between the original system of Usui Reiki Ryoho and this modern version, which is a style, that confusingly has the same name as the system in the case of what the Steines teach.

Is a Church of England Christian practicing incorrectly because they do not attend regular Confession or say Hail Mary's like a Roman Catholic Christian? Or are they just practicing the system of Christianity differently - in a way they feel more comfortable?

Milarepa wrote:

Colin wrote:
Have another read of my post and let's wait to see if anyone else has any comments to make. I really can't be bothered arguing/discussing it any more today.

we're having a friendly discussion, as is meant to be on a forum. before anything otherwise is alluded,

(Note to self "remember not to post in a serious topic when you are tired!") Sorry about the tone I used there, I should have waited until the morning to post!

Milarepa wrote:
I don't need to re-read anything you've said. I've read on the steines website..

steines wrote:
The Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage as taught by the International House of Reiki aims to reflect the practices that were taught by Usui Mikao during his lifetime.

Source: http://www.reiki.net.au/copy.asp?id=BenefitsBranches

and i'm finding it hard to see where this lineage has came from.

Note that the Steines say "aims to reflect" and not "teaches exactly".
The lineage they have chosen to use (the Steines have also received initiation in other styles of Reiki, with different lineages) reflects where a significant part of what they now teach as their own style has come from i.e. its lineage.

In my Reiki manuals, I show the 3 main lineages that have influenced what I teach in my style but I could equally just choose one of them - but which one is the correct one? It is up to the teacher whether they want to make that choice or not. To be fair the Steines do explain where what they teach has come from, so we know that not all of it is from Hiroshi Doi.

Come on people, let's have some other input into this, there can't only be two of us with views on such a controversial subject!

Colin wrote:
I agree, Gendai lineage is not Usui Reiki Ryoho lineage. Gendai lineage only starts from Hiroshi Doi.
The lineage used by the Steines is Hiroshi Doi's lineage - not the same thing as Gendai lineage. Gendai Reiki did not exist when Doi received his initiations from Koyama sensei, Mieko Mitsui, Mr Ohta and Mr Masona (Neo Reiki) but it is from these sources (among others) that he developed his own style of Gendai Reiki. The main thing is that he is as qualified as anyone else to initiate others into the system of Reiki (Usui Reiki Ryoho) because he has received initiation and instruction on how to do this in at least one Reiki style.

How is he qualified? Usui Reiki Ryoho is the original way Usui taught. Doi hasn't, neither have the steines, or anyone else who uses that label - been taught the way of Usui, and recieved the empowerments he used. What they have been taught is numerous, modern styles. This isn't the same thing.

Colin wrote:
My opinion is that it is the receiving of an initiation to the system of Reiki (in whatever style) together with being taught how to initiate others that is important - not the actual style one chooses to practice and/or teach to others. If that was not the case then there would only be one style of Reiki because if someone decided not to use the exact way of initiating others that they had been taught then they would not be able to bring the awareness and ability to emanate/generate Reiki in their students and that lineage would go no further.

All ways are not the same way, i'm not even suggesting one way works better than another either Colin. there's sometimes a noticeable difference in the experience. That's via the change of initiaiton. It's not a collection of techniques that make a style, it's also the attunement, as this gives birth to the general experience. And lineage.

Colin wrote:
Trying to compare differences between the system of Reiki and one of its styles is like trying to compare differences between the religion (system) of Islam (or Christianity etc.) with one of its sects. You can compare the way the various sects practice the system of Islam or Christianity but they are all practicing Islam or Christianity. So, yes, of course there will be differences between the original system of Usui Reiki Ryoho and this modern version, which is a style, that confusingly has the same name as the system in the case of what the Steines teach.

Is a Church of England Christian practicing incorrectly because they do not attend regular Confession or say Hail Mary's like a Roman Catholic Christian? Or are they just practicing the system of Christianity differently - in a way they feel more comfortable?

I'm not suggesting anyone is practicing Reiki incorrectly, but i'll directly answer you. They're practicing Christianity differently. Reiki is different from religion, because we are an initiatorial spiritual path. This is why our lineage is important, and why it should be accurate.

Colin wrote:
Note that the Steines say "aims to reflect" and not "teaches exactly".
The lineage they have chosen to use (the Steines have also received initiation in other styles of Reiki, with different lineages) reflects where a significant part of what they now teach as their own style has come from i.e. its lineage.

Sure, this is true. I've not much to say about using the name Usui Reiki Ryoho, on it's own. Much like i don't worry bout whatever folks teach in Usui Shiki Ryoho. The lineage is giving the impression of something that doesn't exist. Doi never taught the steines Usui Reiki Ryoho, it's inaccurate that if they taught me, they'd be my Usui Reiki Ryoho masters, and yet, Doi who is mentioned in the lineage, is not theirs. Of course, you're suggesting that anyone tauught in Reiki can say they are Usui Reiki Ryoho? I wonder how, and most importantly, why the other names of these styles came about. Isn't more proper, if things are changed, to not use the founders name? Instead what we have here is a blatant use of not only his name, but also a very muddy of the waters. The cynic in me understands the clear need for supply & demand. I can't think of any other reason why this is done.

Colin wrote:
Come on people, let's have some other input into this, there can't only be two of us with views on such a controversial subject!

I second that!

warmest wishes
Wayne

WoW! my head is spinning after reading this thread!!! to break it down into baby talk ( if i'm correct here) Wayne is suggesting that some folk who have been teaching reiki have infact never been initiated into a lineage that can be traced back to Usui ( is that correct?)

Colin is suggesting that all lineages and practices initiate the recipient into Reiki regardless of where it comes from ( is that correct) and Colin is also suggesting that if you have been initiated into ten different styles of Reiki, ultimately at the end of the day you are still teaching Reiki.......I'm a little confused on this one Colin. So you have been a student of different styles of Reiki practice, what exactly do you offer your students whilsts teaching Reiki? a combination of everything you have already learnt and just call it Reiki pure and simple? or do you teach all the styles you have learned seperately? beacuse if you didn't teach seperately then what lineage would you offere in print to your students? because if you didn't stay 'true' to one particular lineage then what lineage do you pass onto your students? and would this be a accurate representation of what a lineage should be?

( just to add, sorry if I've read either one of your views and interpreted them incorrectly) I do find this exchange quite confusing.

Now I'm confused. I have my 2nd level Gendai Reiki. I mistakenly thought that this was THE original Usui Reiki. So what would happen if I received my Master level from a Usui Reiki Ryoho Master. Would I have something or nothing.
For the people here who think that Hiroshi Doi was not initiated into "the real thing", do you think he was a healer in his own right? This wasn't a sham was it? This IS my own fault for not doing my "homework".

I try my best to keep myself out of "Reiki politics" as I like to call it. But I feel the need to comment and share my thoughts on this subject.

If I understand correctly, Mikao Usui achieved satori during a 21 day period of fasting and meditation in isolation. It would be my assumption then, that this is where the idea of the 21 day cleansing period stems from after a Reiki initiation (into any Reiki lineage). He then developed (made up?) a system to teach Reiki to his students. If my understanding is correct this did not involve any attunements/initiations untill the need arose to teach Reiki faster and on a larger scale. For which he then developed another system - the system which was braught to the west, from which similar, different or even entirely new styles/systems arose... possibly got "watered down" or add-ons were installed.

The problem I see in this is that I see a kind of "divide and conquer" scenario developing from people claiming to have the only "true" lineage or others claiming to have a better system. This could be due to the fact that many might choose Reiki as a proffession and as a means of income rather than a spiritual path. And they feel the need to stand out from the crowd as someone or someones who are in the posession of the knowledge and or lineage and position to teach something superior or more authentic than the nice lady that teaches Reiki down the road for a reasonable price or perhaps even for free.

While I am glad that there are people Like Robert Fueston who passionatley delve into Reiki history, to bring us a little closer to understand how Reiki was braught to the west and how it was initially taught, I have to concur though, that the time spent on all that research might have been better spent practicing the art of Reiki.

As Reiki is not a Religion (and I sincerely hope it stays that way), is there really a need for all the politics? . We have been presented and gifted with a system to help ourselves and others on our spiritual paths and in healing or assisting the healing of dis-ease. We were given the Five Elements of Reiki as Colin nicely stated. As long as we stay true to those I think there's not much we can do wrong. I for one welcome new styles or individual styles, mixing and matching. Someone once said that when we practice distance reiki we are not recieveing Reiki ourselves. Some people use props, write down names of those they wish to send reiki to or use visualisations or all of the above. I have used myself as a prop during remote Reiki sessions and I found that we thus both benifited from the session. All I'm trying to say is that I would encourage any of my students to try out different things, to use there intuitiveness and enjoy Reiki while also teaching them what I have been taught and adding to it what I have found for myself. When I do this I am teaching Reiki, I dont add any other titles to what I teach, maybe I should!?

How about instead of trying to get closer and closer to what Usui taught by looking for that one master/teacher, that has just the right lineage,(Goldey Locks springs to mind ) we all grab 21 stones, find a nice quiet spot on a remote hill or mountain top and try to achieve satori like Usui did!? [i]Untill then stfu LOL (Joke)

LuvSoulJah wrote:I try my best to keep myself out of "Reiki politics" as I like to call it. But I feel the need to comment and share my thoughts on this subject.

If I understand correctly, Mikao Usui achieved satori during a 21 day period of fasting and meditation in isolation. It would be my assumption then, that this is where the idea of the 21 day cleansing period stems from after a Reiki initiation (into any Reiki lineage). He then developed (made up?) a system to teach Reiki to his students. If my understanding is correct this did not involve any attunements/initiations untill the need arose to teach Reiki faster and on a larger scale. For which he then developed another system - the system which was braught to the west, from which similar, different or even entirely new styles/systems arose... possibly got "watered down" or add-ons were installed.

The problem I see in this is that I see a kind of "divide and conquer" scenario developing from people claiming to have the only "true" lineage or others claiming to have a better system. This could be due to the fact that many might choose Reiki as a proffession and as a means of income rather than a spiritual path. And they feel the need to stand out from the crowd as someone or someones who are in the posession of the knowledge and or lineage and position to teach something superior or more authentic than the nice lady that teaches Reiki down the road for a reasonable price or perhaps even for free.

While I am glad that there are people Like Robert Fueston who passionatley delve into Reiki history, to bring us a little closer to understand how Reiki was braught to the west and how it was initially taught, I have to concur though, that the time spent on all that research might have been better spent practicing the art of Reiki.

As Reiki is not a Religion (and I sincerely hope it stays that way), is there really a need for all the politics? . We have been presented and gifted with a system to help ourselves and others on our spiritual paths and in healing or assisting the healing of dis-ease. We were given the Five Elements of Reiki as Colin nicely stated. As long as we stay true to those I think there's not much we can do wrong. I for one welcome new styles or individual styles, mixing and matching. Someone once said that when we practice distance reiki we are not recieveing Reiki ourselves. Some people use props, write down names of those they wish to send reiki to or use visualisations or all of the above. I have used myself as a prop during remote Reiki sessions and I found that we thus both benifited from the session. All I'm trying to say is that I would encourage any of my students to try out different things, to use there intuitiveness and enjoy Reiki while also teaching them what I have been taught and adding to it what I have found for myself. When I do this I am teaching Reiki, I dont add any other titles to what I teach, maybe I should!?

How about instead of trying to get closer and closer to what Usui taught by looking for that one master/teacher, that has just the right lineage,(Goldey Locks springs to mind ) we all grab 21 stones, find a nice quiet spot on a remote hill or mountain top and try to achieve satori like Usui did!? [i]Untill then stfu LOL (Joke)

I practice simple Reiki as taught
by my Reiki teacher. I find that
it has served my clients,students,
& myself with much success. I know
that other folks may practice a
different style from me and they have
the same successful results as I do.

I believe we all use the same source

Pachamama wrote:.....( if i'm correct here) Wayne is suggesting that some folk who have been teaching reiki have infact never been initiated into a lineage that can be traced back to Usui ( is that correct?)

er, maybe?

However, I feel the essence of what's been discussed is more to do with the confusions and misunderstandings surrounding the 'Branding' of the particular 'product' being sold to the student ?

maggie wrote:
.I have my 2nd level Gendai Reiki. I mistakenly thought that this was THE original Usui Reiki. ..

Yes, this is a very common situation - and not just concerning the Gendai Reiki Brand.

maggie wrote:
So what would happen if I received my Master level from a Usui Reiki Ryoho Master.
Would I have something or nothing.

Well, IMO, you would definitely have something.
but as to what?
- in keeping with the flow of the discussion in this topic, what you would have would seem to depend on just what is being advertised under the Brand Label "Usui Reiki Ryoho".

Looking beyond the connection to the phenomenon that is 'Reiki' (which is only one part of the whole training), people automatically make certain assumptions about what is being marketed under the Brand Label "Usui Reiki Ryoho".

Most people would quite logically assume that this would be, as you put it "THE original Usui Reiki".

However, on later discovering that what has been taught is actually an "attempt at recreating the original system", or "Reiki in the spirit of" the original system, many people it seems, quite rightly suffer from the retail phenomenon known as "Buyer's Remorse".

They would still have received a perfectly viable form of Reiki Initiation and Training – just not necessarily of the form advertised on the 'wrapper'.

maggie wrote:
For the people here who think that Hiroshi Doi was not initiated into "the real thing", do you think he was a healer in his own right?

Well, if by "the real thing" you are referring to a lineage running back to Usui-sensei, we can safely say that Hiroshi Doi does indeed have a genuine Usui Reiki lineage.

He does afterall have a lineage running back to Usui-sensei via a certain Hawayo Takata...


Interesting, isn't it that so many people are eager to align themselves with Doi's “Gakkai “Lineage, yet how many people who have learnt Gendai Reiki Ho (which is, as Doi states, is in part based on 'western' lineage Reiki ) ever use Doi's other, earlier, lineage:

Mieko Mitsui, Barbara Ray, Hawayo Takata, Chujiro Hayashi, Mikao Usui....

[Could it have something to do with Branding perhaps ]

maggie wrote: This IS my own fault for not doing my "homework".

Perhaps. Perhaps not.
Though certainly the greater fault lies with the teacher and their failure to clearly explain what you were buying into.

Which I feel is a core focus of this topic.

Rlei_ki wrote:Perhaps. Perhaps not. Though certainly the greater fault lies with the teacher and their failure to clearly explain what you were buying into.

Which I feel is a core focus of this topic.

I like many folks got involved
with Reiki when it came to me
during my healing journey. I was
more involved with healing than
the brief history offered as it
was handed down from my Master
level teacher who to this day I
have great respect for. After I
got more involved with Reiki I
found many Reiki forums,where I
discovered many members were taught
differently than me.Then there were
other folks who debated about the
true history of "Dr" Usui. It was
all a learning experience on my path
to healing.