something not sitting with me right.

My training and present understanding suggests that attunement process is like a food recipie. You add the supposed/instructed ingredients in prescribed manner, you get what you'd intended. You change the order/ ingredients you cook something delicious but not that u intended and would write on the certificate.


People who are master level in different styles concurrently, and have multiple lineages, have sometimes a propensity to add something from this bottle and something from other.. If they do this, they might be 'creating' their own style as far as the attunement of the student is concerned. That may be fine, but when they hand over the lineage chart to the student, what is the criteria of picking up one of their lineage and dropping all others


This question may be felt not called for, but i want to clear my mind on it

Help please


Take care
Salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:something not sitting with me right.

My training and present understanding suggests that attunement process is like a food recipie. You add the supposed/instructed ingredients in prescribed manner, you get what you'd intended. You change the order/ ingredients you cook something delicious but not that u intended and would write on the certificate.


People who are master level in different styles concurrently, and have multiple lineages, have sometimes a propensity to add something from this bottle and something from other.. If they do this, they might be 'creating' their own style as far as the attunement of the student is concerned. That may be fine, but when they hand over the lineage chart to the student, what is the criteria of picking up one of their lineage and dropping all others


This question may be felt not called for, but i want to clear my mind on it

Help please


Take care
Salman

This is why i feel it is important to select a good teacher as soon as possible, and try to stick with one style and become proficent with it. Having ten different reiki forms in the luggage doesn't do much of anything save add confusion on the technical and energetic levels.

has it's plus'
I was fortunate to receive Reiki
from a one lineage teacher. I
stick with the simple Reiki that
I was taught. I have not felt the
need to expand to another style
as the Reiki style I use works.

yes i find myself totally agreed with Moore and Bridget, yet still the question holds valid in cases of reiki masters who have multiple lineages.

I've never felt the need or desire to go outside Usui Shiki Ryoho, but academically speaking, i was wondering about the situations discussed

Take care

Salman

In the world of teaching having
multiple styles and mixing is
usually not done. Take writing
styles or printing you select
one style and use that. Its not
to say that other styles are
wrong. If I mixup the many styles
of printing in this post, you can
still read & understand. Its just
a different style of communicating.

Reiki starts with the basic's of ULFE
adding rituals, techniques or changing
symbols, can not change the ULFE; imo
the end result is working with innate
healing

Lambs-Wool wrote:yes i find myself totally agreed with Moore and Bridget, yet still the question holds valid in cases of reiki masters who have multiple lineages.

hi buddy, good topic!

yeah, if we've got multiple lineages, we've recieved mutliple attunements. possibly multiple symbols. imo, the symbols do work on a sub-conscious levels, ya know my many reasons why i feel this. so, to an extent, the multiple variations will be passed down, no matter what the style being told. James goes into more detail on his site, others can please use his google search there.

imo, if a person makes some significant changes to a system, they should, as a matter of principle, declare a new system. it's not common, cause, lets face it, something Wayne Harrison creates just isn't gonna be as easily marketed as something Mikao Usui did. the marketing from Usui sensei, and even Usui Shiki Ryoho is already worldwide, so we'll always have the hard stuff done for us.

Salman wrote:
I've never felt the need or desire to go outside Usui Shiki Ryoho, but academically speaking, i was wondering about the situations discussed

ya mean there's someone else who doesn't feel the need anymore to chase the latest 'Eastern' system, and realises Usui Shiki Ryoho is an Eastern, Japanese system! thank god! hehe

warmest wishes
Wayne

something Wayne Harrison creates just isn't gonna be as easily marketed as something Mikao Usui did

Excellent point Wayne
I over looked that.In a
subtle way it is being
dis-honest to represent
Usui's Reiki with added
gimicks.

Milarepa wrote:

......to an extent, the multiple variations will be passed down, no matter what the style being told.

When we pass down such multiple variations, don't we 'contaninating' the style we'd mention finally on the certificate?

[quote=''Wayne'']
if a person makes some significant changes to a system, they should, as a matter of principle, declare a new system.
[/quote]

While some have taken care of this bold principle, many like me will keep on adding personal preferences to the system we pass on to our students


Take care

Salman

Ps : no answer to my question that which lineage to 'officialise' in case of a 'mix' of styles:?:

Ps : no answer to my question that which lineage to 'officialise' in case of a 'mix' of styles:?:

are you asking if I had 3 or 4
different lineages and have mixed
some of this person and that persons
stuff what lineage do I pass down to
my student.?

It would seem that for some of us we
trust that the Usui Method has been
passed down. If not how can one be
sure which method is not Usui's.

Hi,

Lambs-Wool wrote:
Ps : no answer to my question that which lineage to 'officialise' in case of a 'mix' of styles:?:

I have been attuned to Usui and Komyo. If you believe that my Komyo attunements may affect the passing of an Usui attunement with Usui symbols, then i suppose I can never be more than a hybred. I guess I would have to advertise my attunement and system as a hybrid...Usui/Komyo...according to some.
You`ll never see me do that although, and i cannot say that anyone else is doing it even though I know many people attuned to both Usui and Komyo.
Possibly intention can step in and allow us to pass system specific attunments, or not, I do not know. Some will claim to know, but really, what tangible information would they go to, when trying to form an opinion?

I think one has to include their entire lineage be it two styles or twenty.But really, it comes down to what you believe regarding the attunement scenario I mentioned above.

Honestly, a good person to ask might be William Rand considering the diversity of his training and lineage.

Jim

chi_solas wrote:
are you asking if I had 3 or 4
different lineages and have mixed
some of this person and that persons
stuff what lineage do I pass down to
my student.?

Yes Bridget, this is my central concern. I have seen that teachers who have multiple lineages sometimes allow their student to use any of their lineage to mention for his name.

I am curious to find whether it does not really matter if the student opts lineage A or lineage B as per his own choice?

It would seem that for some of us we
trust that the Usui Method has been
passed down. If not how can one be
sure which method is not Usui's.

Perhaps the source for all reiki systems within usui reiki is Usui Sensei, yet many would believe that 'frequencies' within each such system, are somewhat 'specific', not butting into detail that something is better over the other

However, this is from my personal perspective shared for discussions and corrections




Take care

Reikijim wrote: Hi,
I have been attuned to Usui and Komyo. If you believe that my Komyo attunements may affect the passing of an Usui attunement with Usui symbols, then i suppose I can never be more than a hybred. I guess I would have to advertise my attunement and system as a hybrid...Usui/Komyo...according to some.

not sure in reiki, but within Muslim mystic lineages when a person holds empowerment/admission to system from two distinct mystic families, he mentions the names of both

Jim wrote:
Possibly intention can step in and allow us to pass system specific attunments, or not, I do not know. Some will claim to know, but really, what tangible information would they go to, when trying to form an opinion?

of course there is no tangible information on the other aspect either since much is shrouded within mist, mystery and speculation as and when start talks about attunements.

what i personally feel : intention is an ingredient, not the core of attunement process..

if i attune somebody performing all the steps/set given to me, and if i attune the same buddy through 'direct intention method' or 'crown to crown attunements', the outcomes will be different on many subtle levels, although it is again me who is passing down an ability to the student in both cases.

what needs more discussion around your comment is : "can a master hold back some aspects of his personal spiritual stuff to pass down while he is attuning somebody?"

an attunement is a glow process. we start the process but the process completes itself, and sometimes we are not 'in control' of what we wish to pass down, and what we want not to...

albeit, most certainly though, that we can 'limit' our attunement to the style we are attuning the student into, but we possibly cannot limit our personal/spiritual flavour in passing down to student as a by-product lets see what you feel Jim ?

I think one has to include their entire lineage be it two styles or twenty.But really, it comes down to what you believe regarding the attunement scenario I mentioned above.

if we give our multiple lineage charts to student and leave upto him to opt whichever he likes, is it technically okay ? i'm just curious where i m making mistake in understanding the whole stuff

take care

Salman

Lambs-Wool wrote:

Milarepa wrote:

......to an extent, the multiple variations will be passed down, no matter what the style being told.

When we pass down such multiple variations, don't we 'contaninating' the style we'd mention finally on the certificate?

sure, that's what i implied above,

Salman wrote:

Ps : no answer to my question that which lineage to 'officialise' in case of a 'mix' of styles:?:

imo, it's the responsibility of the teacher to ensure what they teach is as close to the label they say it is. e.g. if it's Usui Shiki Ryoho, as close to what Takata sensei taught, or don't teach. that's where i am anyhow, hehe.

warmest wishes
Wayne

Very Interesting!

Jim wrote:
Possibly intention can step in and allow us to pass system specific attunments, or not, I do not know. Some will claim to know, but really, what tangible information would they go to, when trying to form an opinion?

of course there is no tangible information on the other aspect either since much is shrouded within mist, mystery and speculation as and when start talks about attunements.

Certainly in the lack of tangible evidence everything is in the “domain” of speculation . And yet, I do feel pretty confident to “speculate” that RMT should be able to do specific attunement regard less how many different system he is certified into. Here is why I think so:

1.IMO Intent is very important maybe much more than we care to talk about. I intend to use CKR and I use CKR. If intent isn't important than while I intend to use CKR I could experience SHK instead and things would happen randomly to us which is not the case. Even some attunements are solely based on the intent. Finally if the person doesn't want to receive reiki than he/she will not receive it.

2.Again while there is no tangible evidence it is fair to say that some sort of calibration or fine tuning does take place during the attunement process. Some use radio station analogy which I am pretty sure we all are familiar with. So, for the student to experience reiki all he needs to do is to “fine tune” to Reiki Chanel and there it is-beautiful reiki music plays. Now if RMT intends to perform Usui Shiki Ryoho attunement (and some even ask Dr. Usi for guideline during the attunement or even the reiki treatment) and our students intends to receive Usui Shiki Ryoho attunement and assuming that RMT follows reiki attunement protocol than it would make whole a lot of sense that Usui Shiki Ryoho Attunement come out of Usui Shiki Ryoho (Radi) Channel.

3.In addition if it is said that Reiki Practicioner facilitates reiki healing it might be also appropriate to say that RMT facilitates the reiki attunement?

Of course this is just my opinion!


Regards,

Resko

rzukic wrote:
Of course this is just my opinion!

personally speaking Resko, i acknowledge you as a brilliant mind scientist bro, and i think several times before airing some disagreement with you

Resko wrote:
If intent isn't important than while I intend to use CKR I could experience SHK instead and things would happen randomly to us which is not the case.

of course 'intent' is so much important. it is that much important that in almost every reiki exercise/technique/attunement, we are required not only to have an un-tainted intent in mind, but also to recite our intent as a ritual. [reciting the intent has also the role of satisfying the conditon of 'putting thought, word and deed together' ]

but there is certainly something to consider when we tentamount intent to be the process itself. within reiki, the role of intent is always circumferenced by protocols of the system itself, and no matter how strongly we intend, we cannot accomplish something that is not built in the system. for example, if i intent to use my ability as reiki master to intiate somebody in karuna reiki, when i m myself holding powers for usui shiki ryoho, then of course, there are impediments inherent on my intent in this setup.

Resko wrote:
Now if RMT intends to perform Usui Shiki Ryoho attunement (and some even ask Dr. Usi for guideline during the attunement or even the reiki treatment) and our students intends to receive Usui Shiki Ryoho attunement and assuming that RMT follows reiki attunement protocol than it would make whole a lot of sense that Usui Shiki Ryoho Attunement come out of Usui Shiki Ryoho (Radio) Channel.

thats true, subject to the italicised/embodelned portions i just did... i have to say that if i don't follow the attunement set precisely and do something of my own import during an attunement, i m actually delivering a 'modified' version within the Usui Shiki Ryoho, although i will be writing Usui Shiki Ryoho on the certificate... and the process actually becomes complex if the theing that i do on my own volition, has infact been borrowed from jikiden reiki ro reiki jin kei do, or violet flame or else within which i also happen to be attuned to masters level, for example.

can i write on my certificate 'mr. x has been awarded Frist Degree in Usui Shiki Ryoho as modified through Tera Mai ? this is where i m confused buddy!

Resko wrote:
In addition if it is said that Reiki Practicioner facilitates reiki healing it might be also appropriate to say that RMT facilitates the reiki attunement?

that is certainly true ! RMT can be the 'reason' of doing many things within an attunement since he had some intention in some sub-concsious plane of his mind




take care buddy

salman