Reikijim wrote:With that being said, and the fact that Reiju is considered to be temporary by some, it makes me ponder the importance of intent and the exact locations of symbol placement. I have much respect for Takata-sensi, as I should, yet i also believe that there is more to be discovered in Reiki than what Takata-sensi practiced.

An aside, the perception of both the teacher & student, and the expected outcome, may lead great weight to what's expereinced.

We gotta remember, Takata sensei didn't create the denju type initiaions, they were passed to her by Hayashi sensei.

for sure, there may be more to discover than what Takata sensei knew, though that's 50 years of experience to start, hehe. Not just her though, it's all teachers past & present. Before we know if there's more to be dicovered beyond them, it might be useful to know what it actually was they knew, .

Reikijim wrote:
Although, it`s still arguable that Usui may have not had an established denju procedure. As many of us have surmized, repeated "reju" from this man coupled with daily practices, over time may have made it possible to realize the connection to Reiki indefinitly. That`s Usui...then there is the rest of us...

I know you're playing devils advocate here, so this isn't directed at you really.

There's not much to suggest that Usui sensei didn't create the denju type initiations. Out of all folks we know, Usui sensei is in fact the one in the prime position, to have known what to do, and to have the ability to carry it out. And really, it's kinda to be expected he'd wish to improve on his system.

I know some Reiki celebrities worldwide would say otherwise, and this has been 'took for granted' by so many practitioners (for various reasons) they though (celebrities), have something invested in teaching 'original' things.

Take care
Wayne

Bruce wrote:The discussion of intent is interesting. I don't know how it works in reiki attunements, but I'd like to offer a description of a part of a qigong exercise to illustrate different levels of intent.

Qigong practitioners talk about intent. But not all of 'em have the same level of intent, even when doing the same movement. E.g., one may have been taught to bring his hand up, palm facing down, in front of his mouth. Another may have been taught more specifically, to have the hegu point (large intestine 4) of that hand facing the renzhong point (governing vessel 26) of the upper lip. Still another may have been taught still more specifically, to align the hegu and renzhong points and then establish a connection between them so that energy from the hegu point stimulates the renzhong point. In this example, results vary with the level of the practitioner's intent.

But in reiki attunements, whose intent is significant to the outcome? (The teacher's? The student's? Usui's? The entire lineage? Other?)

Bruce

I like this, Bruce. It sums up my frustration with my Tai Chi classes - I can't even remember what is position 3 in the form, let alone whether I'm supposed to align one point with another! Yet I am getting results from my practice. Why is that?

I also like the comment about "whose intent". As I've mentioned here earlier, there is a school of thought (not Reiki - I think it's more esoteric Christianity) that the power of rituals, symbols etc is because they are imbued with that power, over a period of time, by the collective intent and consciousness of those who use them.

Reikijim wrote:With that being said, and the fact that Reiju is considered to be temporary by some, it makes me ponder the importance of intent and the exact locations of symbol placement. I have much respect for Takata-sensi, as I should, yet i also believe that there is more to be discovered in Reiki than what Takata-sensi practiced.

Milarepa wrote:
An aside, the perception of both the teacher & student, and the expected outcome, may lead great weight to what's expereinced.

Yes...most definitly

Milarepa wrote:
We gotta remember, Takata sensei didn't create the denju type initiaions, they were passed to her by Hayashi sensei.

for sure, there may be more to discover than what Takata sensei knew, though that's 50 years of experience to start, hehe. Not just her though, it's all teachers past & present. Before we know if there's more to be dicovered beyond them, it might be useful to know what it actually was they knew, .

Agreed...

Reikijim wrote:
Although, it`s still arguable that Usui may have not had an established denju procedure. As many of us have surmized, repeated "reju" from this man coupled with daily practices, over time may have made it possible to realize the connection to Reiki indefinitly. That`s Usui...then there is the rest of us...

Milarepa wrote:
I know you're playing devils advocate here, so this isn't directed at you really.

There's not much to suggest that Usui sensei didn't create the denju type initiations. Out of all folks we know, Usui sensei is in fact the one in the prime position, to have known what to do, and to have the ability to carry it out. And really, it's kinda to be expected he'd wish to improve on his system.

Yes Wayne...this opinion most definitly makes sense on many levels.

Milarepa wrote:
I know some Reiki celebrities worldwide would say otherwise, and this has been 'took for granted' by so many practitioners (for various reasons) they though (celebrities), have something invested in teaching 'original' things.

Take care
Wayne

....something vested...yup...

RJ

Reikijim wrote:

Milarepa wrote:
I know some Reiki celebrities worldwide would say otherwise, and this has been 'took for granted' by so many practitioners (for various reasons) they though (celebrities), have something invested in teaching 'original' things.

Take care
Wayne

....something vested...yup...

RJ

I know bro, am i getting politically correct in my old age? Jeez, i better get into a debate with sharon, she'd soon knock that outta me!

Hello lovely’s my 2 cents! we all have the ability to heal on many levels through every inch of our being, but for me what Reiki does and in particular the attunement to reiki, with or without the use of symbols gives us a clear path to work with this energy, an experienced healer can tap into any source and can locate many different levels and strains of universal energy, and have the ability and savvy to know which ones are appropriate to work with, and which may not be, a reiki master works as a middle man working with the energies and empowering the connection fully connecting the student in a clear precise manner, and awakening the connection within that being,
before attunement/connection is given Im noisy and will always take a little time to look at the connection. a before and after…and what is normal for me too see is over the crown an enormous amount of energy waiting to be channeled the energy is often of a mirky color, dense feeling, lacking direction and definition, perhaps lacking love and care, after the attunement the channel is clear light bright, direct with greater awareness, we all can heal, Reiki attunements give people the belief that they can, but not only that they do create a strong empowered connection to a divine energy that for most people needs to be awakened, mainly due to lack of confidence and perhaps lack of dedicated time.
for me I have never seen the channel disconnect from the healer from lack of use, only a collection of that again mirky energy surrounding it nothing that loving use would not clear, a little like a psychic channel the more we work with this energy the more effective our channeling becomes. Blessings xxx

I have a special Reiki room set up
and have created a peaceful atmosphere
surrounded with all things "Reiki"

When I go to someone's home or to a hospital
setting I carry everything Reiki with me in
my mind. Since I was taught with Usui Reiki
symbols that is what I use to help create the
"Reiki" scene,environment. I would not feel
comfortable pulling out my rosary beads or other
icons during a "Reiki" session.

If I teach a child colors and I first introduce
the color green and say this is the color blue.
The child will always identify the color green
as blue. So I feel that it really does not matter
what Reiki symbols are used they all represent
healing power. I feel comfortable using the ones
that I was taught.

Pandora wrote:
I like this, Bruce. It sums up my frustration with my Tai Chi classes - I can't even remember what is position 3 in the form, let alone whether I'm supposed to align one point with another! Yet I am getting results from my practice. Why is that?

It's impossible to address without knowing what results you're getting, and very difficult to address without seeing your taijiquan practice. But could you explain what results you're getting?

I also like the comment about "whose intent". As I've mentioned here earlier, there is a school of thought (not Reiki - I think it's more esoteric Christianity) that the power of rituals, symbols etc is because they are imbued with that power, over a period of time, by the collective intent and consciousness of those who use them.

That would be like when I stood in front of a large statute of Guan Yin and found myself involuntarily swaying on my feet. Later, when I asked my taijiquan/qigong/etc. teacher at the time, he said that people praying to the statute created an electric field in it.

But the reiki symbols would seem to be different, if they were immediately effective for attunement as soon as Usui incorporated them into the system. Unless maybe their effectiveness was due in part to intent that previous people had placed on the symbols.

Bruce

Bruce wrote:
But the reiki symbols would seem to be different, if they were immediately effective for attunement as soon as Usui incorporated them into the system. Unless maybe their effectiveness was due in part to intent that previous people had placed on the symbols.

Bruce

Very good point Bruce. For two of the symbols, being actual symbols, there's been suggested prior links. The two that are phrases, of one DKM, it's wrote in other spiritual things also, the Kanji might mean something different slightly. HSZSN, i'm not entirely clear about right here & now, besides it's obvious mindfullness.

Then, if there were prior meanings, where these meanings utilised for Reiki. Possibly partially so in at least one i think. I'm thinking partially, cause although at least 3 have been wrote/used for other things, this doesn't mean they've the same use then as they have for Reiki now. Guess the question is, if there were previous meanings/intent, what bearing does those meanings/intent have on the symbols use within Reiki.

Take care
Wayne

Bruce wrote:

Pandora wrote:
I like this, Bruce. It sums up my frustration with my Tai Chi classes - I can't even remember what is position 3 in the form, let alone whether I'm supposed to align one point with another! Yet I am getting results from my practice. Why is that?

It's impossible to address without knowing what results you're getting, and very difficult to address without seeing your taijiquan practice. But could you explain what results you're getting?


Bruce

I've only started doing tai chi 3 months ago anyway so I suppose it's a bit early to expect that I remember it all. The "results" vary from the physical - increased mobility, reduced pain, toning of certain muscles - to the metaphysical: I can feel the meridians unblocking. It's a weird feeling, a bit like the equivalent of a drain clearing. I suppose, to answer my own question, it's like an onion. There are many layers to tai chi and the human energy field, but it's still "oniony" whether you are at the skin or the core.

Pandora wrote:

Bruce wrote:

Pandora wrote:
I like this, Bruce. It sums up my frustration with my Tai Chi classes - I can't even remember what is position 3 in the form, let alone whether I'm supposed to align one point with another! Yet I am getting results from my practice. Why is that?

It's impossible to address without knowing what results you're getting, and very difficult to address without seeing your taijiquan practice. But could you explain what results you're getting?


Bruce

I've only started doing tai chi 3 months ago anyway so I suppose it's a bit early to expect that I remember it all. The "results" vary from the physical - increased mobility, reduced pain, toning of certain muscles - to the metaphysical: I can feel the meridians unblocking. It's a weird feeling, a bit like the equivalent of a drain clearing. I suppose, to answer my own question, it's like an onion. There are many layers to tai chi and the human energy field, but it's still "oniony" whether you are at the skin or the core.

I like your definition of onion...skin/core

Hi,

It was very interesting, reading this topic and all the viewpoints.

While reading the thought occurred to me that most of what is said about Reiju comes from a "Western style" perspective. I strongly feel that when we want to look at Reiju we need to look at it from an "original Japanese style" perspective the best we can.

I read about Japanese phrases triggering things, placing and needing symbols, a ritual giving you the ability to heal, connecting a student permanently to a certain energy, reiju and modern attunement having the same purpose, not drawing but still intending symbols.....


I feel it is very important to realize that Usui-sensei's teachings were not about learning how to treat people or to "channel healing energy".
Usui-sensei's teachings were about becoming (and staying) happy, balanced, in total harmony with everything and about spiritual development with attaining spiritual enlightenment as it's ultimate goal.

The discovery of being able to use energy for the benefit of your own or someone else's physical or mental condition is just a side-effect of the spiritual development you can go through.

Everything Usui-sensei taught within these spiritual teachings was only there to assist the students in their pursuit to find happiness, harmony, peace of mind, spiritual development and enlightenment. The Gokai, the meditations and techniques, the use of the Seika Tanden (and the other two Tanden) etc. were there to help the student on his or her path to enlightenment.

Reiju was no exception.

So, Reiju (originally, as far as I know) is also an aid on the path.. the way.
The Shihan (teacher) performing the Reiju creates a very special energetic space. The receiver gets submerged in the entire energy spectrum and receives everything he or she needs at that particular moment.

The Reiju is given while the student carries out the normal meditations. At a certain point in the meditation the Reiju is given. The purpose of the meditation done by the student is to reach a certain spiritual state of being. Reiju helps the student to reach it.

Reiju is a deep and beautiful spiritual blessing, spiritual gift, it is a transfer of energy and more which I have difficulty with putting into words.

Reiju is the opportunity created by the Shihan for the student to absorb or receive what he/she needs.


This is very different from what we know as attunements or initiations in modern Reiki branches.
Often the attunement is seen as a ritual to connect someone to a certain energy (or even a symbol...), to activate symbols, to open meridians or chakras and to give certain abilities. When we read about attunements, we often read about a teacher doing all sorts of these things to a student.

Reiju is non of this. It does not connect you to anything.
Special abilities are not given by some ritual. They are just a result of your own progress on your spiritual path.

It is the opportunity for the student to receive what is necessary.
The Shihan does not actively give something. He or she is only responsible for being in the right spiritual state of being in order to create the opportunity for the student.

There are various versions of Reiju, so we can't actually speak of "THE Reiju".
Of course there is the Reiju I just described.. it's the "unconditional Reiju" we could call it. Next to that there are Reiju (Japanese words have no plural as I understood it) to let the student 'taste' a certain energy. Still no symbols are used and the student is not connected to the energy. Tasting and getting to know the energy is different from being connected to it.

The Shihan needs to be in the right state of being.. at the right spiritual level of development. It takes years to reach this level. The ritual itself (it is not about the physical movements..) is not very difficult. It's all about the underlying mechanism.
If the one giving Reiju is not at a sufficient level of spiritual development or if he/she does not understand the underlying principles.. then it's nothing more than an energy boost.

There is, of course, nothing wrong with energy boosts. But it isn't really Reiju.

*Gasshō*
Frank

Bruce wrote:The discussion of intent is interesting. I don't know how it works in reiki attunements, but I'd like to offer a description of a part of a qigong exercise to illustrate different levels of intent.

Qigong practitioners talk about intent. But not all of 'em have the same level of intent, even when doing the same movement. E.g., one may have been taught to bring his hand up, palm facing down, in front of his mouth. Another may have been taught more specifically, to have the hegu point (large intestine 4) of that hand facing the renzhong point (governing vessel 26) of the upper lip. Still another may have been taught still more specifically, to align the hegu and renzhong points and then establish a connection between them so that energy from the hegu point stimulates the renzhong point. In this example, results vary with the level of the practitioner's intent.

But in reiki attunements, whose intent is significant to the outcome? (The teacher's? The student's? Usui's? The entire lineage? Other?)

Bruce

Thank You for sharing this Bruce!

It appears to me that sometimes the importance of intent is easily overlooked. I say this because few weeks ago, thanks to Wayne, I get opportunity to learn something about QT and the other day I finally got to read the QT Supercharging and I was amazed to learn their chakra model and Amplification process.

Now I have to say that before I ever heard about QT I did spin my own chakras as well as somebody else, at begging using reiki symbols and than without it. In addition I made some experiences that if I bring my attention somewhere that energy follows, so I found out that let's say when my wife had common cold it was pretty easy to “open” the airways so that she can breath normally. Further more it was fun to find out that I could change her breathing pattern (left or right nose drill) easily.

I always thought that this was somehow because of the reiki symbols but than when I read about QT and unless I have missed something, there is no attunements or symbols in QT and yet practitioner can “send” energy “long distance”

I understand that this is little off the topic but I believe still in the right direction, and knowing that many of you here are very good in QT I am wondering if somebody could explain how this works (what enables QT practitioners to do so for there is no symbols, no attunements., no lineage- so what is left seems to be only the intention ??)

Thank You

Regards.

Resko

Find Out How Learning Reiki Can Change Your Life

Hi Frank

Thanks for this - I like where you are coming from!

Frank wrote:Hi,

It was very interesting, reading this topic and all the viewpoints.

While reading the thought occurred to me that most of what is said about Reiju comes from a "Western style" perspective. I strongly feel that when we want to look at Reiju we need to look at it from an "original Japanese style" perspective the best we can.

I read about Japanese phrases triggering things, placing and needing symbols, a ritual giving you the ability to heal, connecting a student permanently to a certain energy, reiju and modern attunement having the same purpose, not drawing but still intending symbols.....


I feel it is very important to realize that Usui-sensei's teachings were not about learning how to treat people or to "channel healing energy".
Usui-sensei's teachings were about becoming (and staying) happy, balanced, in total harmony with everything and about spiritual development with attaining spiritual enlightenment as it's ultimate goal.

The discovery of being able to use energy for the benefit of your own or someone else's physical or mental condition is just a side-effect of the spiritual development you can go through.

Everything Usui-sensei taught within these spiritual teachings was only there to assist the students in their pursuit to find happiness, harmony, peace of mind, spiritual development and enlightenment. The Gokai, the meditations and techniques, the use of the Seika Tanden (and the other two Tanden) etc. were there to help the student on his or her path to enlightenment.

Reiju was no exception.

So, Reiju (originally, as far as I know) is also an aid on the path.. the way.
The Shihan (teacher) performing the Reiju creates a very special energetic space. The receiver gets submerged in the entire energy spectrum and receives everything he or she needs at that particular moment.

The Reiju is given while the student carries out the normal meditations. At a certain point in the meditation the Reiju is given. The purpose of the meditation done by the student is to reach a certain spiritual state of being. Reiju helps the student to reach it.

Reiju is a deep and beautiful spiritual blessing, spiritual gift, it is a transfer of energy and more which I have difficulty with putting into words.

Reiju is the opportunity created by the Shihan for the student to absorb or receive what he/she needs.


This is very different from what we know as attunements or initiations in modern Reiki branches.
Often the attunement is seen as a ritual to connect someone to a certain energy (or even a symbol...), to activate symbols, to open meridians or chakras and to give certain abilities. When we read about attunements, we often read about a teacher doing all sorts of these things to a student.

Reiju is non of this. It does not connect you to anything.
Special abilities are not given by some ritual. They are just a result of your own progress on your spiritual path.

It is the opportunity for the student to receive what is necessary.
The Shihan does not actively give something. He or she is only responsible for being in the right spiritual state of being in order to create the opportunity for the student.

There are various versions of Reiju, so we can't actually speak of "THE Reiju".
Of course there is the Reiju I just described.. it's the "unconditional Reiju" we could call it. Next to that there are Reiju (Japanese words have no plural as I understood it) to let the student 'taste' a certain energy. Still no symbols are used and the student is not connected to the energy. Tasting and getting to know the energy is different from being connected to it.

The Shihan needs to be in the right state of being.. at the right spiritual level of development. It takes years to reach this level. The ritual itself (it is not about the physical movements..) is not very difficult. It's all about the underlying mechanism.
If the one giving Reiju is not at a sufficient level of spiritual development or if he/she does not understand the underlying principles.. then it's nothing more than an energy boost.

There is, of course, nothing wrong with energy boosts. But it isn't really Reiju.

*Gasshō*
Frank

hi Frank

buddy, you are sometimes so good to win several butterflies !! i just gave you a vote for your wisdom!

nothing to add to your already beautiful post, i'd like to empahsize one some sentences, as a matter of my next attention!

Frank wrote:Hi,

I strongly feel that when we want to look at Reiju we need to look at it from an "original Japanese style" perspective the best we can.

....reiju and modern attunement having the same purpose, not drawing but still intending symbols.....

(yes, you are well on point.. they are different inter se

...............The Gokai, the meditations and techniques, the use of the Seika Tanden (and the other two Tanden) etc. were there to help the student on his or her path to enlightenment.

Reiju was no exception.

yes, thats a good point.... while teachers gives Reiju, the focus is on the student as how much he imbibes depending his spritual awareness and progress... this is in stark contrast to initiations where, student just 'agrees' that he is going to receive initiations, rest is all done by teacher...

counting reiju among the techniques utilized by student, is what make your point a very good one...

So, Reiju (originally, as far as I know) is also an aid on the path..

yes, to aid something is quite very different from creating something, hence the difference between reiju and initiations!

the way.
The Shihan (teacher) performing the Reiju creates a very special energetic space.

it may be more than that... but least as good as said

The Reiju is given while the student carries out the normal meditations. At a certain point in the meditation the Reiju is given.

this is different from initiations, where a student takes a start sorta ab initio

Reiju is a deep and beautiful spiritual blessing, spiritual gift, it is a transfer of energy and more which I have difficulty with putting into words.

difficult for me too

.......Reiju is non of this. It does not connect you to anything.
Special abilities are not given by some ritual. They are just a result of your own progress on your spiritual path.

It is the opportunity for the student to receive what is necessary.
The Shihan does not actively give something.

Still no symbols are used and the student is not connected to the energy. Tasting and getting to know the energy is different from being connected to it.

that would be a pretty difficult situation to explain, tbh... i have problems in comprehending a reiki process where symbols would not 'have been' in usage (not saying 'have been used'... whatever a reiki folk does within reiki, is somehow dependent on workings of symbols... conscious use, and automatic activation, this is sure something that rise to surface...

The Shihan needs to be in the right state of being.. at the right spiritual level of development. It takes years to reach this level. The ritual itself (it is not about the physical movements..) is not very difficult. It's all about the underlying mechanism.

and

If the one giving Reiju is not at a sufficient level of spiritual development or if he/she does not understand the underlying principles.. then it's nothing more than an energy boost. There is, of course, nothing wrong with energy boosts. But it isn't really Reiju.

you talk like a japaneese disciple in esoteric practices i liked that tone!


take care buddy

salman

hi bro

rzukic wrote:
Now I have to say that before I ever heard about QT I did spin my own chakras as well as somebody else, at begging using reiki symbols and than without it.

would you take it as a beauty of reiki that when you use reiki symbols, you dont need an 'intent' to make chakras spinning at right speed, it is spiriutal guidance within reiki who guides the patient's inner to just do it!


if we fee that something can be done without the help of somebody (let's say, symbols), it does not mean that the help in the first instance was altogether 'un-necessary'

there are many ways to do a thing, and symbols afford us some of such ways, but these 'ways' are not symbols, they are just 'ways'... i mean to say that symbols are not confined in scope to what we feel they can do

I always thought that this was somehow because of the reiki symbols but than when I read about QT and unless I have missed something, there is no attunements or symbols in QT and yet practitioner can “send” energy “long distance”

well, there might be some hairline differences (which might appear to me as thick ropes

in QT, distant healing is brought about by letting ourselves slip in the space of 'allowance'... letting ourselves feel 'it has happened already' and to let the universe 'entrain' to our emotional state, and bring about the things we'd intended (the distant healing)..it works like something i was reading in a spoon-bending course manual...

in reiki, we bring about HSZSN... 'open' ourselves to the right path and right mindfulness... this makes us connected to the other person (better saying, it dissolves certain barriers between us two), and then we heal him as we'd heal ourselves, or wd heal somebody in person...

lets take another example... i had have verty 'tough' time in trying to establish mind connection with others... the technique i used was to 'merge' in universal consciousness and then reach the desired buddy... i mostly failed but to the exception of once or twice maybe...

when i got introduced to reiki, and had HSZSN initiations, the success rate increased a much lot, since (maybe ?) i was using a different method ??

if somebody could explain how this works (what enables QT practitioners to do so for there is no symbols, no attunements., no lineage- so what is left seems to be only the intention ??)

QT is a superb technique it has roots within qi-gong.. although Richard says that patient 'entrains' to our higher vibration, i still dont have internal evidence for that (despite that i have been doing QT with very good results in this while)...

somethings which dont tie in within the 'vibrational entrainment' model as put forth by Richard, are :
........................in distnat healing through QT, the 'vibrational entrainment' model is not justified to be assumed, since there is no 'touch' between the practitioner and the patient...

......................... why we use the words 'running' the energy 'into' the tissue ? vibrational entrainment supposes that we create a field outside the body of patient to which it entrains... if we are running energy inside the tissue, or deep within body, does that energy 'come back' to us after the process is over ? in the manual somewhere, Richard uses the words "it is absorbed harmlessly...." i wonder, that this is different from the vibrational entrainment, where we use energy to let our hands raise their vibration (presupposition is that we are not 'directing' energy to go inside, otherwise what is the logic of saying that we raise vibration of hands, and patient 'entrains' to it...)

i mean to say, that at one corner, Richard says vibrations of hands are raised (and that this does the trick) and in another corner he says 'running energy' 'energy being absorbed (into the client)" so here i have my mind confused...


................................in supercharging manual, chapter one, the author (under 'auspices' of Richard ?) says that we have to mentally imagine that energy emanating our hands is 'meeting' up with each other on a point of focus within client's bodies... and also says that energy goes where our intent goes.. does that it mean that we are oozing energy from both hands that is 'actually' travelling inside the bodies of the clients, and then meeting together on a certain point ???


if all is understood exactly as i m following this, then this is qi-gong

the full body sweeps and breathing used in QT have also striking similarities to qi-gong...

so, for a fair understanding, we can say that QT is a made-easy version of qi-gong...

a very noteable thing : Usui himself was a master of japaneese energy models, and qi-gong was not a new thing for him.. (we can assume that he'd have practiced qi-gong too, and might be that he must have mastered it also to glaringly high levels)... this finds support from the fact that in Usui's times, there was not possible for any buddy to find high level repute, respect and authority over peers unless he surpassed the common lot in commonly practiced things, one of which was qi-gong...

so Usui giving us Reiki, while having a command in qi-gong too, might mean that he somehow had a vision that reiki can equally (and far better) can produce effects intended by these technique....


so, it would be a mistake, if we replace reiki with QT, as far as therpeutic side is concerned... i made this mistake in the while, but after a nose correction, i m all they way ready to blend them in a way most suitable for client, instead of taking them a mutually exclusive thing..


(i m very interested in views of the peers and seniors that how they differentiate QT from Qi-gong), lets see



take care


salman